Compak K10 WBC vs. Mazzer Robur taste test - Page 3

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
IMAWriter
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#21: Post by IMAWriter »

sweaner wrote:Robert, I have a Mazzer Mini, and I suspect that even it is the largest grinder in MY neighborhood.
Scott...as much as I hate to say this( :oops: ) I have the smallest grinder in the neighborhood, my KyM manual.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

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JimWright

#22: Post by JimWright »

Anyone had the chance to compare shots using the Robur E? I haven't seen anything about it except on the EPNW site, and curious if the auger to reduce popcorning (or speed or other features) produce a difference in the cup.

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woodchuck

#23: Post by woodchuck »

Over the last few weeks I have had the chance to use both a Mazzer Robur conical and a Compak K10 WBC grinder during the testing of the Dalla Corte Mini. The Robur was well reviewed during the Titan Grinder Project and it certainly lived up to its billing. I did have the Schectermatic mod installed. There is also a good threads on the Compak K10 here and here.

That all said I thought you might be interested in the differences I found between the two machines. I would also point out that I focused strictly on espresso drinks. Frankly I can't see this kind of investment for a French press anyways.

First off, I have to point out that I have a Macap M4 which I really like(d) - a few weeks with these guys and I am now suffering from a bad case of Upgraditus. Both machines delivered a superior grind to my M4. They were fast, consistent and produced a great cup.

Overall I would have to give the nod to the Robur. It is built like a tank (it weighs 62 lbs), is wonderfully finished and delivers (in my mind) a better grind (less clumping). To this point Dan and I are going to test out both machines side by side next week and take a few pictures for y'all to see the differences. I found the Robur ran a bit faster than the K10 as well. It does take a little practice (and a lot of coffee) to get used to the speed. The K10 was the WBC model and some folks have suggested it runs a little slower than the standard model. Both machines delivered a shot that I found had more clarity than what my M4 could deliver. I've also referred to this as a "cleaner" cup. Flavors were better defined and I was able to pick up a few more subtle notes in the coffee. I did get my M4 out today and it seems to take forever to dose a shot after having gotten used to the speed of the large conicals.

With the Shnozzola in place the Robur delivered a perfectly centered and uniformly piled dose. All I had to do was swipe and tamp. Nary a mess was left around the grinder. The K10 did a good job but does throw its grinds to the left. I found I always had to play a bit with the back left corner to get a good uniform dose. I also didn't much like the pf fork. Couldn't seem to get the pf into the right spot even though I was using a bottomless.

Both machines swept the doser quite clean. I was particularly impressed with the K10 here. Hardly any grinds left at all after a session. That said both machines did hold coffee in the throat. It was a bit of challenge to get to these leftovers on the K10 because of the finger guard. It required a Torx tool to remove it so I just left it on and dealt with it.

Both machines are stepless and require you to turn a collar. The Robur was a little easier here because of the placement of the collar lever. The K10 is around the back so you just end up grabbing the collar and twisting.

Noise on both machines was much quieter than my M4. I give the nod to the Robur hear again but there really wasn't much difference.

Oh, did I mention the size. They are both huge and dwarfed the Dalla Corte Mini beside them.

So bottom line - both machines would be a great upgrade to my M4. Both gave me a better and cleaner cup. The Robur is definitely the better machine build wise but is twice the price of the K10. The only thing really stopping me from this kind of an upgrade would be the shear size of these guys (at least that's what I keep telling myself).

Will give you an update after next weeks side by side,

Cheers

Ian

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eastpresso

#24: Post by eastpresso »

woodchuck wrote: I found the Robur ran a bit faster than the K10 as well. It does take a little practice (and a lot of coffee) to get used to the speed. The K10 was the WBC model and some folks have suggested it runs a little slower than the standard model.
The Robur should be faster because it has a larger conical (71mm vs 68 mm on the K-10) and runs faster (60Hz 500 rpm/ 50Hz 420 rpm vs 300 rpm on the K-10). I have not had a chance to use the K-10 but a barista recently confirmed a speed difference.

Specs can be found here:

K 10
Robur

I remember reading that the non-WBC K-10 previously was 400 rpm. If they changed the gear for the WBC version it would seem reasonable to use the same on the normal K-10.

Edit: Before AndyS jumps on me - the above data is for the single phase Robur. The 3-phase 83mm Robur-king-of-the-hill eats the single-phase version for breakfast I heard :mrgreen:

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Jacob

#25: Post by Jacob »

eastpresso wrote:The Robur should be faster because it has a larger conical (71mm vs 68 mm on the K-10)
That's the outside diameter. As far as I know the inside diameter is almost the same!

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eastpresso

#26: Post by eastpresso » replying to Jacob »

Err.., afaik 3mm difference is 'almost the same'? :wink: The difference in rpm is not so small...always provided the (Italian and Spanish) specs are accurate :mrgreen: Both grinders are ridiculously fast for the home anyway, so no point in arguing.

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shadowfax

#27: Post by shadowfax »

Not to beat a dead horse, but I would mention that grind speed is a function of rotational speed, diameter, and cutting surface design. For example, the Mahlkönig K30 and Mazzer Super Jolly have similar diameter and rotational speed (I believe the K30's rotation may be a bit slower), but the K30 bests it by a huge margin on speed. I believe it's roughly twice as fast, getting into Robur/K10 territory.

From what I have seen, all the commercial conical burrs look pretty much the same on cutting surface design, so this is probably not a significant factor in this case.

Ian, thanks for your comparison of these two grinders. Although I don't know if to be grateful or jealous--I'd love to get my hands on a K10 to see what it's like for myself. I'm looking forward to seeing the photos of your grind comparison.
Nicholas Lundgaard

IMAWriter
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#28: Post by IMAWriter »

eastpresso wrote:Err.., afaik 3mm difference is 'almost the same'? :wink: The difference in rpm is not so small...always provided the (Italian and Spanish) specs are accurate :mrgreen: Both grinders are ridiculously fast for the home anyway, so no point in arguing.
Having owned 2 SJ, one with Duranium burrs, I can't imagine why folks AT HOME would require anything faster, especially if grinding directly into the PF/basket. My gosh, I did 16 grams in around 5 seconds with the Duraniums!
Forgive me, but dwelling on speed comparisons of monster grinders seems just a little.....obsessive. :lol:
If I had these 2 grinders, I'd be concentrating on taste, ease of distribution, NEATNESS, performance of the doser, ease of cleaning the throat, etc.
Just my 1.5 cents.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

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AndyS

#29: Post by AndyS »

IMAWriter wrote:I can't imagine why folks AT HOME would require anything faster, especially if grinding directly into the PF/basket. My gosh, I did 16 grams in around 5 seconds with the Duraniums!
Once you get used to fast grinders, 5 seconds seems a little slow, actually. A three-phase Robur at 60 hz does a double dose in about 1.5 secs. That extra 3.5 secs really comes in handy for doing essential stuff like spitting or scratching one's crotch.

To be truthful, though, I normally run the Robur at 36 Hz. At that speed it takes a laidback 2.5 secs to grind 14g. This is OK, though, because previously, with all that scratching time, I was beginning to get a bit sore. 8)

-AndyS
VST refractometer/filter basket beta tester, no financial interest in the company

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RapidCoffee
Team HB

#30: Post by RapidCoffee »

IMAWriter wrote:Having owned 2 SJ, one with Duranium burrs, I can't imagine why folks AT HOME would require anything faster, especially if grinding directly into the PF/basket. My gosh, I did 16 grams in around 5 seconds with the Duraniums!
AndyS wrote:Once you get used to fast grinders, 5 seconds seems a little slow, actually. A three-phase Robur at 60 hz does a double dose in about 1.5 secs. That extra 3.5 secs really comes in handy for doing essential stuff like spitting or scratching one's crotch.
Scratchin' time! Gotta agree with Rob though: once you're down to a few seconds of grinding time, anything faster is probably too quick for accurate dosing (unless you have an electronic timer). My SJ with 64mm Duranium burrs ground slightly faster than my (sluggish single phase) Robur. I suspect the flat burr K30 (or the Major with 83mm burrs) grinds even faster. Conicals are not typically speed demons, Andy's three-phase monster notwithstanding.
woodchuck wrote:First off, I have to point out that I have a Macap M4 which I really like(d) - a few weeks with these guys and I am now suffering from a bad case of Upgraditus.
Uh oh... :twisted:
John