Bigger burrs fact or myth? (in the cup)

#1: Post by **slipchuck** » December 13th, 2017, 5:39 pm

Does bigger burrs mean better in the cup? I assumed it was until I read how small the Baratza Sette burrs were compared to other grinders that are supposed to be the same in the cup result as the sette

Thoughts?

Thanks

Randy

#2: Post by **CwD** » December 13th, 2017, 5:49 pm

More about burr design and alignment IMO. Some huge burrs are trash at extracting, some small ones are good.

#3: Post by **malling** » December 14th, 2017, 4:43 am

Bigger burrs tend to be slightly better designed than their smaller cousins, obviously have a larger grinding area and longer grinding path, larger burr make it possible for running the grinder at low RPM, without resulting in excessive long grinding times and stalling, it also creates less heat.

Smaller burrs are very often more aggressive machined to speed up things, these also run with a very high RMP so these quickly heat up.

Yes it is possible to make great 64mm burrs, Mahlkonig and SSP has shown that if you put money in to it, it can outshine 75-83mm burrs. But the burrs are also 5-6 times more expensive. However it is only better because the burrs are better designed and made. These burrs are literally being blown out of the water by the larger Mahlkonig, Ditting and SSP burrs.

And yes smaller burrs are easier to align, and tend to be less badly aligned. So although bigger burrs allow for great espresso/coffee the downside is bad alignment, and at the end a better aligned grinder win.

That said, there is crap large burrs just like there is crap small burrs.

#4: Post by **renatoa** » December 14th, 2017, 5:38 am

The majority consensus of the first wave Kinu testers shows that M38 and M47 were indistinguishable in cup.
And why should be ? If same profile burrs rotates with same angular speed, the only difference is in grind quantity, not in the quality.
Then came M68 and the shock was terrible... some prefer M47, some didn't said anything and sold theirs silently, almost nobody has publicly high praises for M68... definitely is hard to justify 3-4 times difference in price for a non-quantifiable difference in cup.

#5: Post by **peacecup** » December 14th, 2017, 7:11 am

I've happily ignoring the bigger is better mantra for ten years. Ignorance is bliss.

#6: Post by **namelessone** » December 14th, 2017, 8:07 am

renatoa wrote:The majority consensus of the first wave Kinu testers shows that M38 and M47 were indistinguishable in cup.
And why should be ? If same profile burrs rotates with same angular speed, the only difference is in grind quantity, not in the quality.
Then came M68 and the shock was terrible... some prefer M47, some didn't said anything and sold theirs silently, almost nobody has publicly high praises for M68... definitely is hard to justify 3-4 times difference in price for a non-quantifiable difference in cup.

Whatever your gripe is with Kinu it's getting tiring. I've read plenty of positive reviews for M68?

Also according to the Kruve measuruments that we have done 47mm seems to be slightly better than 38mm in terms of distribution (Lido/Kinu vs Feldgrind).

#7: Post by **renatoa** » December 14th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Thread title contains "in the cup", not crunching numbers in sieves.

December 14th, 2017, 3:19 pm

Some of us, including myself, follow the philosophy that a more even natural (as in not created by sieving) particle distribution is always and without exception better in the cup.

#9: Post by **namelessone** » December 14th, 2017, 3:34 pm

renatoa wrote:Thread title contains "in the cup", not crunching numbers in sieves.

The difference between 47mm and 38mm hand grinders was not very large in the Kruve comparison - I would say there isn't a giant leap in terms of grind quality between the two. We don't have numbers for 68mm hand grinders as I don't own any.

My Vario with 54mm burrs seems to give a more even distribution and I get better clarity in the cup than my Feldgrind or Kinu. At the top end you have the EK43 which seems to work closer to a roller mill with a very very tight distribution - and this really shows in the cup.

#10: Post by **malling** » December 14th, 2017, 4:48 pm

There is a massive difference in how well the Vario and EK's perform. The quality of the burr, the precion and tollerance of the burrcarier and chamber. You might get a grinder where everything is perfect, but then again you might not.

People who has tested EK using Kruve lies between 70% in the middle section to 90% just to point out the varience in quality!