Cool, thanks for the response. Sounds like you're quite far out, but I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with! Maybe check out 63mm mazzer kony burrs as well.

There are so many ways to execute grinders, many of which there are no examples of. I'm convinced that the mazzer design is the cheapest, and NOT the best. It is truly a challenge to beat that design and price. Using smaller burrs you could get away with some dense plastic and few metal parts, but people will complain unless it's solid aluminum or something like that, and the grinders employing plastic aren't typically built up to standard so you would be overcoming a presumption of poor craftsmanship.

For instance, I like the versalab straight-through design (with extra bearings) and their volumetric dosing as well. If only you could have an auger fed gravimetric doser and an auto humidity control system to deal with static. Now we're talking $$$!

An upside down direct drive design (like Tek's monolith) is the cheapest straight-through method. Have a hopper funnel straight into the burrs and add an electric timer and you've got yourself a pretty slick design for low $$$. Personally, I'm keeping my grinder low and using a toothed belt since I have to deal with cabinets.

There is SO MUCH to think about, it's quite fun.

I have a Compak K3 Touch. Here is what I would like to see as User Interface features from a new product.

1. The K3 adjusts grinds by rotating a collar. To adjust, one first encounter static friction of the threads. Once that is overcome, one encounters dynamic friction, which is lower. It is very easy to move the collar too far in a lurch. I would like to see some form of screw vernier. There has to be a way to allow for gross changes in grind so that one would not need to turn the screw forever.

2. The K3 has a 3 position electrical switch in the back, Continuous, Pulse, Off. In Pulse mode, tapping the portafilter against a lever under the spout once delivers one dose. Tapping it twice, delivers 2 doses. Dosage is varied by a knob. I would like an additional feature for turning on and off the grinder using the lever. For example, if the lever held in solidly and not tapped, grind until it is released.

Best wishes on your project.

Winston

Hi everybody!

Back again after a longish hiatus from the forums. I just wanted to let you guys know that we are progressing with the project and share some of our thoughts about the grinder design. We are now co-operating with a local roastery and cafe. This step will help us gain contacts to the industry but also provide key expertise in the prototyping phase and perfecting the design.

One attribute that has risen to an important role in discussion with professionals and home baristas alike is noise. People would love to have a grinder that is quiet. Now, since the purpose of a grinder is, well, grind beans that are quite hard, it is not realistic to make it completely silent. But we are taking steps to make ours as quiet as possible with reasonable effort. Major sources of noise in a grinder are quite obvious, the burrs and the motor. By eliminating rattling parts and damping direct noise from the burrs with a rubber-dampened lid, quite an impact can already be achieved. Motor noise we can eliminate almost altogether by choosing an induction motor instead of a general purpose electric motor.

An induction motor is more expensive, but has some neat features. It is almost silent in operation, practically everlasting in this use, slightly smaller and adjustable. Because the motor is electronically controlled anyway, a frequency converter -based speed adjuster can be built in. Now, this would allow the user to steplessly adjust the rpm of the grinder (for example 200-2000 rpm) to accommodate for any given situation. Some beans can be ground faster than others without impairing quality. With this solution you could tune the burr speed to best match the taste profile of your bean. We think this is way cool. The question is, do you?

Just to give you some idea of what might be coming I'll share a couple of drafts. These are, again, drafts for concept development use and not finalized drawings for manufacturing for example. But the idea is there. Some, perhaps many things and details will still be changed along the way but for most part the grinder is doable as it is pictured here.

I find the idea of using the same locking mechanism for the grinder, to be a very interesting solution, but there is one problem with that solution, not every espressomachine uses a 58mm design, and even in the 58mm range, there are differences, so unless you come up with a design, that allows it to engage all 58mm portafilters and preferable 53mm as well, then you'r are going to miss out of potential buyers.

for example you can not use a faema nor a LM portafilter in an Elektra group head, even though all of them are 58mm.

Looks very interesting. The portafilter lock would be a great touch, but I agree that you need to come up with a solution where any buyer can buy the grinder with a specific lock mechanism. For instance, you can offer three different types and this way customers can choose which they know they'll use primarily and opt to use a basket or an attached portafilter holder for other sized portafilters.

I'm excited to see this come to fruition for under $2000USD if possible.

Thanks for the input!

Regarding RPM adjustment as a design priority, I agree with TomC. Mechanical robustness and other factors that are a necessity for quality grinding come first. The ability to adjust RPM is a bonus that comes with the choice of motor type. We believe that as such it might open up new possibilities for the user to affect the quality of their coffee. To be honest I haven't (yet) had the chance to experiment with burr speed, keeping other factors constant. If slower RPM equals higher quality under all circumstances, ability to adjust is relevant only if you need to get your beans ground faster at times. But, I believe it is entirely plausible that some beans benefit from slightly faster speeds, or at least change their characteristics in ways that might be interesting to users of a grinder like this. Any thoughts?

Then about the portafilter lock. That is quite correct that there is an array of different portafilter sizes on the market, and surely we want them all to be compatible with our grinder. The mechanism used to attach the portafilter is quite simple, however, and can be imitated in a way that would accommodate a wide range of portafilters. In the worst case we would have to provide a few options but in that case we would probably just find another way to nicely attach the portafilter. It is good to remember that in our application the portafilter does not have to stay secured under high pressure, it just needs to be attached tightly enough not to accidentally fall off.

Under 2000 dollars, that is definitely the target and we still think it is totally realistic.

I will make a small plea that you keep the height under typical kitchen cabinets. This limitation keeps me with my Vario (which I am happy with) but I would have liked to get a larger conical or flat burr grinder, the cabinets are a limiting factor.

Design looks simplistic and fantastic. Loading the beans from the front like that at an angle seems like a really good idea as well. Right now i'm not a fan of how I have to carefully put my beans into my HG One. I guess I can just buy a simple lipped vessel to pour the beans with). The angled load my also prevent the odd bean from popcorning back out during grinding as well.

As for price I will be honest and as much as I would love this grinder I don't think I would be willing to paying close to $2K USD for it (I suspect many others as well). The price point would have to be comparable between the K10 PB and Electronic equivalent. Why? Because the K10 PB is the majority benchmark reference point that most use. It's possibly the cheapest motorized Titan conical and its only drawback is the doer and the associated bumping and brushing. The only other two similar grinders that mitigate this to some extent is the Nino and Versalab. Fantastic grinders but how many actually own one or are able to purchase one?

Andrew I'm a little confused by your comment on pricing. The K10 PB in Canada is not much cheaper than 2k and in the US it's not that much better (using 1st line as an example for pricing). I think most people would say that under 2k is a comparable price to the K10.

People have been 'willing' to shell out to the price of a used K10 for a manual grinder, heck they've been willing to shell out almost 3x the price of a Pharos to make the Pharos easier to use. I know your comment was a personal comment as to what you would be comfortable paying, but you used the K10 as a benchmark in terms of quality and price and I think it's fair, but who wouldn't pay a little more for a grinder that is a single-dosing k10 without bumping and grinding?