Better and worse workflow in single-dosing grinders - what does it mean? - Page 3
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malling
Niche should just have installed that ioniser like DF83, Ode and Zerno and it would also resolve the sometimes retention in chute, that many are now tipping the grinder, banging the lid etc. to get out.
But of course with some ozone pollution as a consequence
But of course with some ozone pollution as a consequence
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RyanP
Looking at the versalab of today, not of 10 years ago, it seems to me to set the bar for workflow. I used to use a monolith flat, as well as a max, and while I didn't have a big issue with WDT/RDT the difference in workflow is night and day.
Secure portafilter holder. No RDT, no WDT. Quick grinding. No static-y mess. Grind, tap, tamp, pull. Visually uniform extractions. What else could you ask for? This is, to me, what other grinder designers should be striving to accomplish.
I am not someone who gets obsessed with the gear I use or feel like everyone else needs to own what I own. I was also a big fan of my monolith grinders, and am not saying the versalab is perfect or will produce a style espresso that will suit everyone, but the workflow of the versalab has been a bit eye opening. As a result of using one, now it is frustrating to me that there are no other options for grinders that uniformly distribute grinds into the basket aside from the copycat designs, the $8k Titus which, while more robust and aesthetically pleasing, insanely (to me) requires finding somewhere to put the giant external power block, and the more affordable and better spec'd honne which doesn't offer a 110v option. It surprises me that with all of these single dosing grinders becoming available today that there is no other attempt at executing what the versalab does.
I will say the major breakdown in workflow for the versalab design is that it does not handle large changes in grind size, so it is not an ideal grinder to serve double duty for both espresso and filter. I don't fully understand how retention works in the versalab, but if you don't make large changes in the grind size then you generally will get out what you put in within .1g. But if you make a large adjustment in the funnel it will drop a fair amount of retained grinds and when you go to grind again you will lose .5-.7g or so in that first dose.
Other than that, every time I look at another grinder now, such as the Zerno which has caught my eye, I end up wondering do I really want to give up the workflow, and the answer so far always seems to be no.
Secure portafilter holder. No RDT, no WDT. Quick grinding. No static-y mess. Grind, tap, tamp, pull. Visually uniform extractions. What else could you ask for? This is, to me, what other grinder designers should be striving to accomplish.
I am not someone who gets obsessed with the gear I use or feel like everyone else needs to own what I own. I was also a big fan of my monolith grinders, and am not saying the versalab is perfect or will produce a style espresso that will suit everyone, but the workflow of the versalab has been a bit eye opening. As a result of using one, now it is frustrating to me that there are no other options for grinders that uniformly distribute grinds into the basket aside from the copycat designs, the $8k Titus which, while more robust and aesthetically pleasing, insanely (to me) requires finding somewhere to put the giant external power block, and the more affordable and better spec'd honne which doesn't offer a 110v option. It surprises me that with all of these single dosing grinders becoming available today that there is no other attempt at executing what the versalab does.
I will say the major breakdown in workflow for the versalab design is that it does not handle large changes in grind size, so it is not an ideal grinder to serve double duty for both espresso and filter. I don't fully understand how retention works in the versalab, but if you don't make large changes in the grind size then you generally will get out what you put in within .1g. But if you make a large adjustment in the funnel it will drop a fair amount of retained grinds and when you go to grind again you will lose .5-.7g or so in that first dose.
Other than that, every time I look at another grinder now, such as the Zerno which has caught my eye, I end up wondering do I really want to give up the workflow, and the answer so far always seems to be no.
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RTOBarista
- Supporter ★
I have been using the Titus versalab grinder for about 6 wks and have ground 2.1 kilo
No RDT, WDT, work flow is great. After stopping the grinder, I remove the portafilter with the orphan funnel and turn the grinder back on and few drops occur from the Wipers. This has gotten less with time.
I have been experimenting with pour overs and it is very good. As you mentioned, when the grind size changes there is more retentions or more pass through grinds from the previous session. However, the second grind at the setting change gets back to normal
I have been using a grind setting from 30 to 60 for espresso and 180 for pour overs with the Stagg XF. I grind 20 grams into the the Weber Unifilter with the orphan funnel x2 to get 40 grams for the pour over. I have check the wipers and they ok with these changes. Frank does not recommend these changes. He feels coarser grinds my damage the wipers. This has not happened.
No RDT, WDT, work flow is great. After stopping the grinder, I remove the portafilter with the orphan funnel and turn the grinder back on and few drops occur from the Wipers. This has gotten less with time.
I have been experimenting with pour overs and it is very good. As you mentioned, when the grind size changes there is more retentions or more pass through grinds from the previous session. However, the second grind at the setting change gets back to normal
I have been using a grind setting from 30 to 60 for espresso and 180 for pour overs with the Stagg XF. I grind 20 grams into the the Weber Unifilter with the orphan funnel x2 to get 40 grams for the pour over. I have check the wipers and they ok with these changes. Frank does not recommend these changes. He feels coarser grinds my damage the wipers. This has not happened.
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RTOBarista
- Supporter ★
I forgot to mention that Frank made two custom dosing cups for the the Titus versalab. He had one remaining and he is getting it coated with DLC. I should get it in a few months and I will be able to grind 40 grams for pour overs.
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theaaaa
I think two factors at play are that the DF64 comes in 4 maybe 5 versions. Ours is the original model. I understand the later versions are much better behaved! I think there's a lot of acceptance that it was a fairly unique product at the time and the need to mod was just how it was. I'm pretty sure both Hoffman and Hendrick had a long list of gripes with it though and they weren't wrong!Ursego wrote:It's weird... I've never owned a DF64, but I've watched a lot of videos about it, and I've never seen anything like this. Workflow is always the same as Niche Zero's (though, I did add bellows to my NZ separately).
We're running without the declumper, but with a modified declumper in it's certainly better in terms of static, but I think it tastes worse and the amount of stale grounds that collect at the top of the chute is wild and to remove the chute means half disassembling the grinder.
The popcorning is very bean dependant, but you're right it's not something I've seen in reviews, as least to the extent we experience. I've definitely seen plenty of videos of beans flying out the top but not too much mention of really long grind times so maybe this was a really early change they made? I think I heard they increased the timer length. We had a Kenyan peaberry which took 3 runs every time, so 1min30 or so. So much bouncing around inside the bellows!
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