FWIW, to me the Weber Key doesn't have quite as good a workflow as I'd hoped. It's great on the two most important parts of workflow: grind changes bring expected results and true zero retention. But the rest of the workflow isn't quick. The dumping beans in is a bit hit or miss since RDT for me is necessary and some beans stick to the funnel. And the workflow on the back end isn't effortless either as there is still some puck prep I do with another funnel and getting the grounds flat before tamping.

Also, for me, I'm never buying another grinder with a chute flap. I've had a couple and even the best designs retain some grounds but the real trouble is when it occasionally retains a bunch more. The Super Jolly and Compak I had were great at the front and back ends of workflow, easy to adjust, but the flap is always an unknown. Of course that's why I haven't bought another flat because those without flaps are quite a level higher in price too.

And yeah, the Niche was perfect workflow. Gives great confidence which is why it's a perfect grinder for those new to the sport. But there is more flavor to be found elsewhere either for a lot more money or for a sacrificed workflow.

The Zerno Z1 looks to have a very nice workflow, somewhat Niche-like, with negligible retention without need for bellows (thanks to the vertical burr design). I have one on order and am excited to work with it and compare with my Niche and MC5.

Several things have been updated since this "launch-edition" workflow video was released, including a built in ionizer to reduce static and a magnetic centering catch cup, and a change in the bearings and gearbox to reduce noise. It seems worth considering if interested in a well built machine with a simple workflow in the 64mm burr set range. But, it's a bit of an unknown at this point because there aren't very many out in the wild.

Ursego wrote:You put the beans in, turn on the grinder, coffee pours into the dosing cup. How could that process be more or less convenient or even enjoyable?

I think it's great to be in a situation where what you know contents you fully. It's like people who can't taste a meaningful difference between relatively cheap and very expensive wine. They like wine, they're happy. It's so nice and uncomplicated. Always chasing something better can be exhausting and much less satisfying.

MNate wrote:FWIW, to me the Weber Key doesn't have quite as good a workflow as I'd hoped.

I concur. My Key is immensely fussier than my Mazzer Mini was, despite all the shortcomings of using it as a single dose grinder. For sure, I gave the Mini more slack because it wasn't designed for that. But the Key is, and therefore the expectations are higher, and it falls short, in all the areas you mentioned, as well as in the unwieldy and rather coarse grind steps, routine stalling if you want to take advantage of low RPM, need to do WDT despite the wire "wiper," etc. I do like what I taste enough, but it's definitely not a straightforward grinder.

I'm using a Compak E5 and have been for the last 6 years. Just had my first set of burrs replaced. Only espresso and lattes, no other coffee types and very simple workflow.

Pour beans>weigh beans>grind beans>extract.

The only issues I've had came from the dulling of the burrs which made wildly different consistency for extractions. I use the Orphan Espresso single dosing collar. I have very low retention and am happy with my results.

theaaaa wrote:The DF64 goes like this:

• Weigh beans,
• spray lots of water or disaster ensues!,
• tare dosing cup,
• pull off bellows,
• load beans,
• put bellows back or beans popcorn all over kitchen,
• press grind button and wait 30 seconds,
• grinder auto stops but still some beans popcorning around so press button again for 30s more,
• do a third round if the beans are really dense and bouncy,
• notice mess around grinder pump bellows to make more mess,
• weigh dosing cup and work out if its close enough to target weight of grinds that we don't need to add a few more beans,
• finally put dosing cup into portafilter. (Unless the chute blocked and need to fully clean the grinder and start again)

Notice DF64 slowly slides along the counter over time!

The Niche we don't even bother weighing the output any more it's always close enough. The DF64 sometimes loses a gram for fun. It's a miserable experience compared to the Niche and this is modded already. Niche has never blocked. It's a joy to use in comparison!

It's weird... I've never owned a DF64, but I've watched a lot of videos about it, and I've never seen anything like this. Workflow is always the same as Niche Zero's (though, I did add bellows to my NZ separately).

I got a comment on Facebook where a guy replaced DF83 with Niche Duo and was very happy - he said that he hated DF83 because of the workflow, but Niche Duo is perfect.

boren wrote:Single dose flow with the Sette 270Wi:

- Weigh your beans and add 0.5 gram. No need for RDT.
- Press the grind button to purge the 0.5 gram from the previous time.
- Place the portafilter and put beans into the hopper.
- Press the grind button. Grinding completes in a few seconds, with the weight of the ground coffee almost always within 0.1 gram of target. No popcorning, no static, no clumps so no need for WDT.

Beat that dedicated single dose grinders

Note that step #2 is not needed for consecutive shots of the same type of beans. Just multiply the number of shots you plan to make with the exact weight of each and put the total weight of the beans in. The grinder will take care of weighing each.

I think the 270Wi has the perfect workflow - unbeatable, I would say. Even though we are discussing single dozing grinders, I would prefer automatic weighing (I roast in half-pound batches, so the beans will not have enough time to stale in the hopper).

A few years ago I wanted to buy the 270 (the 270Wi didn't exist yet) and had already come to the store to pick it up. The first thing that confused me was the terrible build quality. The grinder was "crookedly chipped" out of cheap plastic. Even a $50 grinder looks more premium. When I turned it on, my ears exploded! I had never heard such a loud grinder! I walked out of the store very disappointed. I'm ok to have not the quietest grander, but not that noisy! I had to order a Niche Zero and wait many months for it (it was 2019 - the NZ hype period), and temporarily buy a hand grinder.

Today there is an Eureka Mignon Libra with automatic weighing, but I don't like the small burr.

malling wrote:Something like a Niche can be modded to take a PF stand

I tried to grind on the Niche Zero directly into the portafilter while holding it in my hand. Unfortunately, the NZ scatters coffee particles in all directions. Even though I was using a funnel, it was messy all around (and the funnel itself was covered with a layer of coffee, so moving that coffee into the basket killed the workflow). Other grinders (including various DF models) are preferable from workflow point of view because the coffee jet hits the same spot (like a laser beam), creating a neat slide. The dosing cup is said to be better because you can shake it to evenly distribute and eliminate clumping. But this is irrelevant to me since I recently purchased the revolving WDT tool and prefer to grind directly into the portafilter. I can't wait to see what the 078s will be like in this regard.