Bentwood Vertical 63 - Page 8

September 24th, 2022, 10:22 am

Primacog wrote:It has a unique feature in thw vibrating chute etc.

However the biggest issue is its price level that pits it against the likes of the Weber EG-1, Titus Nautilus and Monolith Max that use much larger burrs of 80mm to 98mm....

Apart from that, there will soon exist two different vertically positioned burr grinders of 64mm that are much cheaper than the bentwood. The bentwood does not even have variable rpm motor.
Furthermore, like it or not, it's burr size sits in the most highly competitive burr size category of all with a large range of competitors in the 64mm flat burr category that are much cheaper. For instance I could buy almost 7 DF64 grinders equipped with whatever SSP burrs I wanted for the price of one bentwood 63.

Ultimately for me, even if my budget could accommodste the vertical 63, the price makes it a difficult one to consider...

Sure the Bentwood won't win burr size comparisons. However, the Bentwood presents coffee with panache. The taste is well balanced. Modern more fruity notes are presented well while body and mouthfeel are maintained.
Sure there are burrs from SSP that produce more clarity in the cup and there are a bazillion classic espresso burrs that punch you in the face with body and strength, but you will pay a price for these extremes.
The Bentwood on the other hand is part of an illustrious selection that is able to balance everything well, avoiding edges in sourness and bitterness alike in a very enjoyable way.

September 24th, 2022, 12:01 pm

ron231 wrote: Wow dude, youre making me consider getting this instead of EK+SSP

I have an Ek43s and the stock Ek burrs are probably closer in flavor to the bentwood. Very sweet...ssp not particularly sweet but great flavor too although I've only tried ssp on Mono max.

Workflow wise EK needs accessories otherwise it is a mess but a new EK43s doesn't even need alignment.

I think bentwood may be the perfect alternative.

#73: Post by **Primacog** » September 25th, 2022, 1:08 am

coffeeOnTheBrain wrote: Sure the Bentwood won't win burr size comparisons. However, the Bentwood presents coffee with panache. The taste is well balanced. Modern more fruity notes are presented well while body and mouthfeel are maintained.
Sure there are burrs from SSP that produce more clarity in the cup and there are a bazillion classic espresso burrs that punch you in the face with body and strength, but you will pay a price for these extremes.
The Bentwood on the other hand is part of an illustrious selection that is able to balance everything well, avoiding edges in sourness and bitterness alike in a very enjoyable way.

That may be the case - and the 64mm ssp cast lab sweet burrs may go some way to diminishing the difference? - but I just find it difficult to understand why it has been priced to such an unearthly level. Is it because of where it is manufactured?

September 25th, 2022, 6:53 am

Most likely Italy as the country of production is not what drives the price.
PS, but actually more importantly:
The taste properties I described above are a rare exception. So rare that in fact I struggle to find comparisons. What I am trying to say is that the Bentwood is one of the best grinders for espresso taste wise. If the SSP Lab Sweet burrs are in the same realm I would congratulate Han from SSP for achieving something exceptional. I surly would like to try them.
Taste wise Bentwood surely is exceptional right out of the box and even more so after aligning the stationary burr.
The only comparisons that I can think of are Ditting Lab Sweet and DRM Hybrid burrs or their SSP evolution, all of which are unique in their own right.

#75: Post by **RyanP** » September 25th, 2022, 10:32 pm

coffeeOnTheBrain wrote:The taste properties I described above are a rare exception. So rare that in fact I struggle to find comparisons. What I am trying to say is that the Bentwood is one of the best grinders for espresso taste wise.

What other grinders have you owned and used extensively?

September 26th, 2022, 12:53 am

Graef

Eureka Atom 60mm
Comandante
SSP 64mm unimodal (original in the Eureka)
Niche Zero
EK43
Bentwood
Lab Sweet 807

Edited: I owned the above, I only used others occasionally.

#77: Post by **Primacog** » September 26th, 2022, 1:06 am

My compak k10 is a commercial grinder and can blow through a kg of beans without issues but it only costs a small fraction of the bentwood. So it seems the biggest reason for its royal price is the marking up factor! I do not disagree that vendors can set their price and if the market is willing to pay it then that is rhe right price. Still, there is still some degree of proportionality involved even by very ambitious price setters. You named the eg-1 in this regard, but the eg-1 is atleast regarded by the market as a titan burr grinder due to its 80mm burr set, along with the ditting lab sweet.

The bentwood 63 on the other hand is fractionally smaller than the 64mm burr set that is the most widespread burr set in the boutique espresso market. Why should the bentwood feel able to set such prodigious prices for such a burr set? Others here have also pointed out how ordinary looking those burrs are, too. This is a situation where consumers should vote wirh their wallets and send a message to such vendors that such ambitious price setting ought not to be rewarded - otherwise other vendors will take note and we will see a never ending acceleration of prices beyond even the middle class in the United States and Europe to pay for their espresso toys...and is that what we all really want? That is why I refuse to consider the eg-1 for myself and I certainly will not consider the bentwood 63 for the same reason.

September 26th, 2022, 2:26 am

Primacog wrote:That is great that it can function as a commercial grinder but on tbe other hand, most of us would be using it to single dosing so that capability is not really needed for most of us.

Furthermore my compak k10 is a commercial grinder and can blow through a kg of beans without issues but it only costs a small fraction of the bentwood. So it seems the biggest reason for its royal price is the marking up factor! I do not disagree that vendors can set their price and if the market is willing to pay it then that is rhe right price. Still, there is still some degree of proportionality involved even by very ambitious price setters. You named the eg-1 in this regard, but the eg-1 is atleast regarded by the market as a titan burr grinder due to its 80mm burr set, along with the ditting lab sweet.

The bentwood 63 on the other hand is fractionally smaller than the 64mm burr set that is the most widespread burr set in the boutique espresso market. Why should the bentwood feel able to set such prodigious prices for such a burr set? Others here have also pointed out how ordinary looking those burrs are, too. This is a situation where consumers should vote wirh their wallets and send a message to such vendors that such ambitious price setting ought not to be rewarded - otherwise other vendors will take note and we will see a never ending acceleration of prices beyond even the middle class in the United States and Europe to pay for their espresso toys...and is that what we all really want? That is why I refuse to consider the eg-1 for myself and I certainly will not consider the bentwood 63 for the same reason.

I am a little irritated you are repetitively asking about the price level of a grinder and you get pretty reasonable answers from multiple people, yet you insist that the price is unreasonable. To top that off you already decided that you will never buy the grinder, why are you asking about it then? Well, you answered, the reason for you asking is a the fear of a price spiral. I believe that though deserves it's own topic, please feel free to start it.

On the topic at hand, Steph Curry was not welcomed in the NBA with open arms, he is not as big as other Basketball players, he barely ever dunks and most experts didn't know what to make of him when he entered the league. By now he won MVP, won multiple Championships, and earns millions. Maybe you are overlooking something too?
By the way you can not judge a burr by how it looks ot it's size.

#79: Post by **Primacog** » September 26th, 2022, 3:44 am

There is no need for you to feel offended or annoyed over my points - I posed some questions, they were answered, and I replied to them. It is a back and forth and in the end I was not convinced by the rationale stated by the two persons who have replied to me, and i took the trouble to explain why and why i will therefore not be able to consider it for purchase for my own espresso needs.

Those are my own reasons and I have the same right to comment on them against this grinder just as you have the right to comment in support of this grinder...

It is all good and everyone who is interested in the grinder will make their own decisions over whether they want to buy this grinder or not. Perhaps the discussion here will be of assistance to them...

September 26th, 2022, 5:29 am

Yes sure you have the right to comment and repeat your statements. However, I have the right to be mildly annoyed by that after sincerely trying to help you and finding out that you made up your mind before your first post.

And other have the chance to decide for themself which comments are helpful and which are not like this one here by me