Baratza Vario vs Forte with brew burr sets?

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
nuketopia
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#1: Post by nuketopia »

After mulling it over a while, I decided to send my old (vintage? LOL) Vario in to Baratza Repair and see how it turns out. Also ordered the brew burr set.

Before shipping it, I did check the burr alignment and the grind it is pretty far off. The upper carrier can be indexed to any of three positions. But no matter which way, it always wound up with early burr contact at the 11-o'clock position, which indicates some basic structural geometry is off. I'd guess the thrust and wear of the bushings leads the rotor to tilt this way as they wear, or perhaps, the plastic chamber isn't entirely square. The ceramic burrs were in fairly good shape, with some dulling of edges. Most of the wear was concentrated at the contact point mentioned. I stopped using it some time ago, as it simply wouldn't grind espresso with any reliability any more. Early on, it did a good job. I got my money's worth out of it, so I'm not griping. There is just so much that plastic parts and bronze bushings can do as they wear.

I'm hoping all this gets corrected. There have been numerous mechanical updates since the grinder was made (it is an early one, with a very low serial number). I've also repaired it several times over the years I owned it, with belts and motor cogs, the new front panel with the shims and a few other things.

I don't do a lot of brewing, but it would be nice to have a grinder that did it well. The Monolith Conical is a killer espresso grinder, but I think a purposeful brew grinder might do better with the coarse grind.

So, anyone compare the Forte BG with a Vario + BG burrs?

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another_jim
Team HB
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#2: Post by another_jim »

I've had the Vario with brew burrs for about 6 years, and it is getting ragged and loud; the Forte's I see in brew bars seem to be stay in much better shape. The brew burr is slow for single dosing when compared to the ceramic one, and it won't do espresso grinds. But I really like the way it works for French Press grinds. I may get a Forte when the Vario finally kicks, because I like the brew burr that much (as well as the ergonomics of the Vario/Forte design). So my 2 cents is check out the brew burr on the Vario, see if you like it (many people aren't as impressed as me), and if you do, consider a Forte for the long term.
Jim Schulman

nuketopia (original poster)
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#3: Post by nuketopia (original poster) »

Yeah, I think the Forte is definitely a more robust build.

Trying to figure out where the parting line - durability vs. stability. My usage is light, so the durability isn't a concern. My demands for quality are high, so the stability is the question.

I guess I'll see how it comes back from the repair center. Maybe with enough new parts, it will be stable enough to do the job. Lot cheaper than an EK43. :)

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Denis
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#4: Post by Denis »

The burr carrier is holded by 3 clamps/claws on the vario, you can't even compar it to the forte, not to say ek43.

Your usage from.forum.posts are not light, are medium roasts.

You cannot have top results by tweaking a 300$ product

nuketopia (original poster)
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#5: Post by nuketopia (original poster) replying to Denis »

Sorry Denis. Not getting into that light roast nonsense with you again. This ain't the thread for that. Go start a thread in some appropriate place for that.

Are you speaking of your personal ownership of the Vario or Forté?

false1001
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#6: Post by false1001 »

If you say "light roast" 3 times in the mirror Denis will appear behind you holding a bag of nordic roasted coffee and 80mm red speed burrs

I would say from personal experience that the Forte is more consistent and slightly better if both grinders were perfectly aligned (both with steel burrs). That said, I've never been able to align my vario very well either, it sounds like mine has the same pattern of wear as yours, so this could just be an artifact of actually being able to align it properly with the Forte's solid burr carrier. I would not personally upgrade to a Forte solely for brew though, the difference is not worth $500+. The only grinder sub $1000 that I have personally found to be a solid upgrade brew wise was my old Jericho grinder that had ghost burrs. I bought the Vario when that bit the dust, assuming a grinder made within the past 20 years would be automatically better and was surprised to find the Jericho often provided much cleaner and easier to distinguish flavor profiles. I will probably get a Fuji Royal to replace my Vario when that time comes.

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johnny4lsu
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#7: Post by johnny4lsu »

false1001 wrote:If you say "light roast" 3 times in the mirror Denis will appear behind you holding a bag of nordic roasted coffee and 80mm red speed burrs
absolute best way to respond to him :lol:

pcrussell50
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#8: Post by pcrussell50 »

Larry,

Since the top burr is stationary, and it's the bottom burr that turns, how did you turn it to determine the clock position for contact? I have zero complaints about how my early Vario performs, but that doesn't mean I'm not curious about its alignment, too.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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Denis
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#9: Post by Denis »

Hope this helps and I hope you can see the thread on the forte vs the no thread ok the vario.



Baratza Forte vs EK43: Which is Better?

As for light roasts I have something for you.



ben8jam
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#10: Post by ben8jam »

Wow couldn't have been better timed. Last week I arrived at the conclusion the monflat is actually not very good for pour over. I'm sure that comment will bring the heavens down upon me but at a coarse setting the amount of fine vs boulders is staggering. Grind into a small cup and give a shake and the layers are apparent. I compared to a Gautama and the grind from that grinder was incredibly uniform. This all came from trying to get the same quality pour over at home that I was getting at the shop. Denis at kafatek confirmed this was to be expected as monflat is an espresso grinder first most.

So in lieu of tossing $2k at a new guat, it was recommended (today actually) I try the steel burr set for my vario. So I'm very eager to hear how it goes for you.

Looking at an old thread of mine from a year or so ago , mitanksiky rated the vario with steel as good for brew but the monflat substantially better. So if that's the case then I'm not going to bother with the vario at all bc the flat doesn't do the quality of grind I'd want for pour over.

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