h3yn0w wrote:Did you notice a difference going from the Vario to the Sette? Or going from something earlier to the Vario?

The Vario was my first grinder. I finally retired it because of the "flex" in the adjustment. No matter what tricks I tried, every time I tried to move the micro grind lever, the grind (ie: shots) wouldn't appear to change for about 3 steps, then it would move too far all in one go. This was infuriating because I'd perpetually dance either side of exactly where I wanted it.

Once I upgraded to the Sette, I wasn't fighting with the grinder. However, around the same time I noticed a definite drop-off in my enjoyment of a typical shot. I figured I'd traded a grinder that would very occasionally give me a wonderful shot for one that would consistently give me a decent shot. In the monolith I was looking for something that would consistently give me wonderful shots, especially since I can reliably pull a pretty even shot with the Sette now.

In hindsight, I am wondering if there was something else in play around the grinder upgrade. For instance, having a stable grinder has allowed me to learn a lot more about how things like bean age factor into shot flavour; I like a more acid shot, so younger is definitely better. It's possible that, around the upgrade, I was inadvertently doing something dumb, or my roaster changed the blend to one I didn't like as much. I attributed this to the Sette, when really it wasn't the problem at all.

Steve, I have to give you a huge +1 for your honesty...it's not easy to publicly question the results of such a large equipment purchase.

I drink a lot of Clockwork because it's the easiest thing I can get fresh, moderately priced, and does not adversely effect my households digestion. I don't think it's the best roast to suss out what the Monolith can do that the Sette can't. Once the Monolith is broken in, I would hit up George Howell for a couple of bags of your preffered SO if you really want to push it and yourself.

What's your in & out with Clockwork? Shot time?

russel wrote:Steve, I have to give you a huge +1 for your honesty...it's not easy to publicly question the results of such a large equipment purchase.

+1

It is so very helpful for those of us at the beginning of our coffee journey (like me) to have these insights and questions that are rarely discussed. Thanks for starting such an interesting topic - I'll be following this closely to hear your thoughts over the next few weeks Steve.

russel wrote:... I don't think it's the best roast to suss out what the Monolith can do that the Sette can't.

This can't be over stated. But what can't be over stated either is that the monolith's capabilities "above" the Sette may not matter to you.

I'm happy with my Sette after the mechanical issues were resolved. Im happy because I love blends that can sing well when ground by the Sette.

jerbear00 wrote:I suspect I am one of those quote lucky ones. Haha my wife says my taste sophistication is limited. I still went and ordered both Monolith's. For some reason I just "need them." :mrgreen: (it's for my wife...)

The true mark of sophistication is understanding one's own tastes!

russel wrote:I drink a lot of Clockwork because it's the easiest thing I can get fresh, moderately priced, and does not adversely effect my households digestion. I don't think it's the best roast to suss out what the Monolith can do that the Sette can't. Once the Monolith is broken in, I would hit up George Howell for a couple of bags of your preffered SO if you really want to push it and yourself.

Hello, fellow Bostonian! That's a good point on the beans, I've mostly been sticking with Clockwork because it's very easy for me to get and I really like it. In fact, I had some Alchemy from GH the other day and wasn't impressed. I'll definitely have to give some nicer beans a whirl. Care to recommend anything from GH in the medium roast/pretty acidic spectrum?

russel wrote:What's your in & out with Clockwork? Shot time?

For yesterday's experiments I was targeting 17g/30g with a 28s hard stop on my machine's timer. This morning I finished up my bag and got something *very* tasty at 17 in, 34 out, 29s (stopped by eye).

Btw, if you're interested in playing with my grinder (once it's broken in), I'd *love* to compare to with your arsenal!

I had CC1 at the time when I bought K10 to replace Vario and CC1 was limiting factor for me. I upgraded to Cremina then and all flavors just popped. When compared to CC1 and K10 it felt like there was a veil pulled over all the flavors, the range was missing, flavors were missing. I also thought that K10 upgrade from Vario was wasted. So try different machine in addition to different beans... Espresso is always as good as your weakest link.

I received the Flat two weeks ago and I was using the Sette W before that (still have it). The Sette W is not consistent for me but that might be because it is from an older batch. My impression is that the MF has greater clarity in the cup in the sense that flavors are more pronounced and easier to identify. I also like how consistent the MF is between grind settings and beans, I can rotate between espresso and pourover with the dialed in grind setting, which is something I cannot do on the Sette.

cheesy wrote: Care to recommend anything from GH in the medium roast/pretty acidic spectrum?

If you like Kenyans you can consider their Mamuto AB "espresso roast". Their espresso roast is about medium with nice acidity, in fact they are putting it on drip next week. Their single-origin espressos are worth trying, and those are quite different from the Alchemy which was formulated also with milk drinks in mind.

cheesy wrote: What I've been doing to compare:

- Dial in one of the grinders to something pretty tasty.
- Set the shot timer on my machine (Crossland CC1) to match that.
- Dial in the other grinder until I get a shot that's about the same weight (within a gram or two).
- Pull another shot on the original grinder, and compare the two.

I wonder if this method of comparison is suitable. As I understand these things, the advantage of the Monolith Flat is that you should be able to dial in higher extraction yields (which don't taste over-extracted) than would be possible with differently configured grinders. This means that to get the best results you want to grind finer with the Flat than with your Sette, and accordingly pull shots that take longer to reach your chosen brew ratio.

You might try dialing in both grinders to get the best shots you can achieve from each of them, and then compare the two shots. They should be different but, of course, this method will reveal more if you are using the sort of beans that others on this thread have recommended.

I figured I'd traded a grinder that would very occasionally give me a wonderful shot for one that would consistently give me a decent shot. In the monolith I was looking for something that would consistently give me wonderful shots, especially since I can reliably pull a pretty even shot with the Sette now.

I doubt that the occasional wonderful shots you got when using the Sette had anything to do with the grinder. A difference that great would probably come from the fortunate combination of a number of variables, including puck preparation, ambient temperature and humidity, bean condition, and the performance of your espresso machine.

Matt

I am finding similar results when compared to the Breville 870XL and my new-to-me setup. I don't find the difference in the cup. Meaning, I don't find what I am doing now with the Monolith Conical and the Rocket to taste better or worse than when I was using the Breville 870XL .

When Alan gets back, we will test back to back with his Sette. He has more experience than I do. So most likely some of it is fine tuning my machine to lower the pressure, learn when to pull the shot at the right temp after a flush, etc.

Right now I am just happy that the grind from the Monolith is consistent, no degradation on the drinks I make... I did not have a grinder for the Rocket so now I do and I am happy using it. The quality of the Monolith is great. It looks amazing. It is quiet... so I am happy with the purchase.

But maybe too much of a newbie to detect any differences in the cup.