another_jim wrote: In TGP part 2, we looked at a large number of grinder samples, and the magnitude of grind adjustments used to tune in shots or change dose were too small to show up on laser sizers. Also, given the finickiness of refractometers and the smell of drying pucks, I find it a lot easier to taste extraction changes than to measure them.
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That grinder adjustments have two degrees of freedom -- particle size and fines ratio -- also explains the very different response to grind adjustments I've seen in other grinders.

Thanks for posting your thoughts - very interesting limitations and behaviour of grinders and other equipment.
I have a hard time modelling in my mind how fines ratio but not grind size would be changed if burr gap distance is changed. Is there a simple explanation for this behaviour?
The thought in my mind how this could occur in approximation would be if a section of a burr is more tubular than conical and so with collar adjustments the length of the grind path but not the gap distance would be adjusted.
The picture of the suspected Sette burr I could find appears slightly truncated and narrow compared to another conical - could this shape over the small distance covering espresso ranges have a similar effect? Am I totally off base?
http://www.etzinger-ag.com/.cm4all/ipro ... C01177.JPG

Another question that I feel might be raised (depending on definition of "fines"?) is whether they participate in extraction... having brewed sifted particles I didn't find much flavour at all but Perger seems an advocate for the idea that fines are the important particle in extraction rather than a flow limiter?

Interesting indeed. So, Jim, are you saying that shots at the same dose and brew ratio but different grind settings (so one takes 25s and the other 35s for example) will taste the same with this grinder, or at least far more similar than they would with a traditional espresso grinder?

Jim, this is all very interesting. Thanks for your meticulous work. Perhaps you've discovered more about the Sette's nature than even Baratza has! Have you shared these findings with Baratza? And have they commented or provided feedback?

Also, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this: Why doesn't a change in the ratio of fines also change the taste? Isn't there a relationship between fines and taste?

IMAWriter wrote:Even at a setting of 20, with the Micro in the middle, the grind was super even. I got terrific Kalita pours, but as you say, OK coffee drip coffee from the very dependable Behmor Brazen. At near the coarsest setting, I got a respectable Press pot using my Espro Press.

How does the Sette function adjusting grind settings between espresso and pour over (i.e. do the settings hold well?). I've been hopeful that I could go between settings with minimal issues, unlike my Vario which struggles to return to espresso without purging a handful of beans and even then the burrs have to resettle a little too much. In other words, I'm interested in whether or not I can grind for pour over and then simply return the dial to my espresso settings to grind for a shot with minimal time and waste.

I sold mine because it didn't do well for pour overs. It's calibrated for espresso. Baratza claimed that I couldn't calibrate it more for brew. Even at the most coarse setting, it was still too fine for my liking. I decided to get a Vario-W with the steel burrs and it's lightyears better for pour overs. Hope that helps.

johnny4lsu wrote:I sold mine because it didn't do well for pour overs. It's calibrated for espresso. Baratza claimed that I couldn't calibrate it more for brew. Even at the most course setting, it was still too fine for my liking. I decided to get a Vario-W with the steel burrs and it's lightyears better for pour overs. Hope that helps.

I think the poster was hoping for a one grinder solution. Jim said it worked well for FP so it's weird that yours wouldn't even go to pour over setting.

tglodjo wrote:How does the Sette function adjusting grind settings between espresso and pour over (i.e. do the settings hold well?). I've been hopeful that I could go between settings with minimal issues, unlike my Vario which struggles to return to espresso without purging a handful of beans and even then the burrs have to resettle a little too much. In other words, I'm interested in whether or not I can grind for pour over and then simply return the dial to my espresso settings to grind for a shot with minimal time and waste.

No issue whatsoever. I'm not NEARLY as technically astute as Jim, but I have to figure that it has to do partly with the actual grinding mechanisms, and the fact that MY unit is far more calibrated towards espresso. The grind variation is much less, so for those with standard E61, or LMM types wild see less variation going back and forth. The Strega demands a significantly finer grind than did my Cremina or Anita.

I believe Baratza is working a separate burr set for drip/press, but I'm not in the complete "know." I'm just doing my "testing" mainly to see how the Sette works with our lovely Caravels, Peppina, Cremina, Faemina, CT1, La Pavoni, mainly as to taste profile, etc. I found the Sette to produce shots on my Strega and Caravel that were slightly less "acidic" than a Pharos big burr grinder. Compared to a K30 Vario and Pharos, somewhere in the middle, but as Jim said, with coffees in the middle road...light medium to darker medium.

Back to your original question, perhaps Jim's testing might prove more informative. My "tests", while some were blind, were most likely less controlled than Jim's.

RyanJE wrote:I think the poster was hoping for a one grinder solution. Jim said it worked well for FP so it's weird that yours wouldn't even go to pour over setting.

I concur, at least with my Sette. MY Forte with steel burrs is superior in the coarser settings. As was said, and I concur, the Sette is, for me, set up better for espresso use, and it does a terrific job at it. I have really less than .2-.4 grams retention in the area Jim describes. Perhaps it's the humidity factor, or coffee we're using? Like other Baratza grinders, I'd recommend that after putting about 3 #'s through it, to disassemble and clean thoroughly. Be carefully threading the burr assembly back. I found the burrs needed about 5#'s through them. YMMV

RyanJE wrote:Jim said it worked well for FP so it's weird that yours wouldn't even go to pour over setting.

My experience was not the same. Anything needing more coarse than v60 resulted in really long brew times. I can't imagine the one I had working for French Press.

Baratza is working on brew burrs for the Sette.

Good to know. Thanks for the follow-up. I plan to get a Sette primarily for espresso (I use a Feldwood for pour over since it's mostly single cup brewing). Just didn't know if this Sette *could* be that all-in-one god-tier grinder for us home enthusiasts who can't go Titan and/or have multiple grinders on the counter.