Baratza refreshes the Vario lineup with Forte components and ability for user-alignment - Page 2

#11: Post by **malling** » October 4th, 2021, 10:01 am

Jonk wrote:Please read the thread(s). It is a great single doser. The best I've used. Don't be fooled by the design.

I owned a Vario and it is not a great SD grinder in stock configuration and it is certainly not designed for it.. however it's a perfectly capable grinder with the steel burrs and it only helps it got the steel interior.

Like many other none SD grinders you can however mod it to work as such, people have after all done so for a few decades with multiple grinders. I also done it with a few grinders myself, but we are really beyond the point where it should be necessary to do so. Why in the right mind would you buy a new grinder to mod it and pay for electronics you don't need or intend to use when you can get other grinders that costs the same and where meant for SD from the beginning. I would never buy any new grinder I would need to mod not anymore, today I expect the manufacturers to have sorted that out and give me the option to do so without needing to mod it. If you don't offer that you missed the mark, this criticism I also had about the Mahlkonig that uses the exact same burrs.

I guess they are not ready yet to make the jump and this upgrade have costs them the bare minimum in R&D. But it's still the same attitude that we seen from others manufacturers where they toss bellows on, tilt it a bit or upgrade a few parts and call it the day, instead of doing the right thing and design it from scratch, this is what I'm waiting for. I don't think I'm being overly demanding.

#12: Post by **DamianWarS** » October 4th, 2021, 1:30 pm

boren wrote:It's interesting that Baratza is releasing new (refreshed) grinders but completely ignore the latest trend towards single-dosing. I would expect them to at least offer an optional hopper optimized for this workflow, like the one they made for the Encore.

I have the Vario (not plus) and use that SD hopper and it works great. I think it's compatible with their entire lineup except for the Sette series.

#13: Post by **Feca** » October 4th, 2021, 1:52 pm

It doesn't seem they've done much on the alignment front. Am I understanding correctly that the addition of a metal grind chamber now 'allows' users to do the hyper-alignment (with foil, as always) instead of having to add a Forte chamber themselves? Seems kind of disingenuous to me to claim any sort of alignment improvement credit if I'm understanding this correctly... no?

#14: Post by **coffeechan** » October 4th, 2021, 1:55 pm

It comes down to individual need and flexibility. Some days I wish I had a timed hopper fed grinder when I do 2-3 pulls back to back. If you entertain often and fancy banging out drinks then the new Vario might be appealing. The Vario, Specialita in this price range can perform well with a hopper and modded for single dosing. It's not as perfectly optimized as a true single doser, but it's what your uses are going to be that dictate your purchase.

The Vario was groundbreaking back when it released for many reasons. The ceramic burrs and later the brew burrs performed very well and it had a small form factor. Kyle hones on a few points that I agree with that the grinder game has significantly improved over the years and it's much more competitive in this price range. Nevertheless for those who like the Vario, improved build quality is a welcome change that will deal with the pain points the machine mentioned in the last decade. I had mixed experiences with the Vario and Forte when I owned them for a short while. Main gripe for the Vario was the tendency for adjustments to slip and the delicate feel of the grind change. Forte was the opposite, the grind changes were too stiff. The new releases would make it onto my list of grinders if I had to buy now, but knowing my preferences I much prefer a micrometric knob adjustment.

#15: Post by **dsc106** » October 5th, 2021, 7:32 pm

So as a Niche Zero owner, thoughts on making a Vario-W+ a second grinder, in SD config?

Use case would be mostly for drip/filter brews to get that flat burr clarity, and more occasionally, to experiment with light-roasted espresso and a different profile than the Niche. (assuming I could use it for both without too much hassle, or would it need to be just for brew only without recalibration?).

The alternative here would be an Ode with SSP burrs, or if I save enough pennies, something like a Lagom P64. But at $600 this seems like a reasonable 2nd grinder.

So what do we think of a Niche & Vario-W+ pairing for a 2 grinder setup... or could I do better?

#16: Post by **cmin** » October 5th, 2021, 8:11 pm

malling wrote:I owned a Vario and it is not a great SD grinder in stock configuration and it is certainly not designed for it.. however it's a perfectly capable grinder with the steel burrs and it only helps it got the steel interior.

All you have to do with the Vario is reverse the flap in the chute and than it's basically a better 0 retention grinder than anything else minus a Monolith. Even the Niche is kinda finicky with some rention (and my DF64 as well). I used a Vario like that for years since 2011, still have that grinder around, spot on to .1g from weighed dose. Steel burrs don't mean much, those are more for brew, I've got another one, aligned also, for that. But as far as retention no difference there.

Hopefully they got rid of that flap (doubt it) as that's all that it takes to make it an amazing single doser, especially now that the new ones can be easily aligned. Luckily to reverse that flap is stupid easy. Vario has a tiny and tight clearance chamber and a miniscule chute, grinds just exit right out.

dsc106 wrote:So as a Niche Zero owner, thoughts on making a Vario-W+ a second grinder, in SD config?

Use case would be mostly for drip/filter brews to get that flat burr clarity, and more occasionally, to experiment with light-roasted espresso and a different profile than the Niche. (assuming I could use it for both without too much hassle, or would it need to be just for brew only without recalibration?).

The alternative here would be an Ode with SSP burrs, or if I save enough pennies, something like a Lagom P64. But at $600 this seems like a reasonable 2nd grinder.

So what do we think of a Niche & Vario-W+ pairing for a 2 grinder setup... or could I do better?

With steel burrs (not ceramic set), it's an amazing brew grinder. Even SSP sets aren't that much better, that Vario steel burr is just designed extremely well for brew. Maybe a Monolith Max but no clue there, only had espresso with that. I didn't see a "big difference" Vario steel burr vs 64 SSP for pour over, actually hardly a difference at all.

#17: Post by **Jonk** » October 5th, 2021, 8:33 pm

dsc106 wrote:So as a Niche Zero owner, thoughts on making a Vario-W+ a second grinder, in SD config?

Why would you choose the W for SD though? The scale will be meaningless and potentially problematic for SD - if it's true that there's no manual mode like that guy shows in the review video above.

cmin wrote:I didn't see a "big difference" Vario steel burr vs 64 SSP for pour over, actually hardly a difference at all.

I disagree with this. At least the SSP brew burrs that I have are quite different. They're both very good but I can easily tell them apart.
The SSP brew burrs will be further apart from the Niche Zero in terms of flavor for pour over, so that is perhaps a better choice. Put them in a DF64 and you've got a great light roast espresso option as well.

A Vario with steel burrs is a safer bet for more interesting, although perhaps not perfect pour overs in my experience. It's what I reach for in the morning. The adjustment system is not great for espresso though.

#18: Post by **cmin** » October 5th, 2021, 8:41 pm

Jonk wrote:
I disagree with this. At least the SSP brew burrs that I have are quite different. They're both very good but I can easily tell them apart.
The SSP brew burrs will be further apart from the Niche Zero in terms of flavor for pour over, so that is perhaps a better choice. Put them in a DF64 and you've got a great light roast espresso option as well.

A Vario with steel burrs is a safer bet for more interesting, although perhaps not perfect pour overs in my experience. It's what I reach for in the morning. The adjustment system is not great for espresso though.

oh yeah I totally agree there, a Niche will get crushed for brew by SSP burr or steel burr Vario. I just meant the difference between the latter two wasn't as drastic as I expected, but an aligned steel burr Vario is damn good, performs far better than it should. I was expecting the SSP brew burrs to be like night and day better from the hype, definitely have the edge, but not like what people made them out to be (or those that hadn't used the steel burr Vario).

I may put in my DF64, still playing with that thing lol, just yanked the declumper out, even the updated design sucked, couldn't believe the retention and dust/fines, better now, but more static issues even with RDT. Not sure why the DF has such big static issues, others don't and the Vario doesn't even with its plastic parts and RDT. Than I had issues after a few mist beans kinda get stuck on metal chamber and not dropping into the burr. I tried ghetto rigging it today with the doser from Aeropress which fits lol, but than had to cover it with my hand b/c holy f'n popcorning beans...

October 5th, 2021, 9:05 pm

cmin wrote:... I tried ghetto rigging it today with the doser from Aeropress which fits lol, but than had to cover it with my hand b/c holy f'n popcorning beans...

You have to use an Aeropress funnel, or any hopper, with a weight to simulate bean mass on top of the beans to get the narrowest grind distribution. Surprisingly to me, the actual mass didn't seem to matter in the Vario, just as long as there was something applying a constant downwards pressure during grinding. I use a plastic bottle that used to hold aspirin or similar that slids down the funnel and into the upper burr carrier (41mm or so diameter).

Besides the above and the flapper flip, for single-dosing I use a bellows. I also never liked the donut of retained grounds that forms in the top of the grind chamber and falls off every once in a while and screws up a dose. I extended one of the sweeper arms to take care of that donut retention. I realize that this is excessive, but I wanted the best results that I could get.

#20: Post by **dsc106** » October 5th, 2021, 11:26 pm

Jonk wrote:Why would you choose the W for SD though? The scale will be meaningless and potentially problematic for SD - if it's true that there's no manual mode like that guy shows in the review video above.

I didn't realize there was no manual mode. That's annoying. The thought was at $530 vs $600, may as well get the weight feature in the event that as the family grows, I like the early AM workflow of just weighing it out quickly right from the grinder. Also, I think I'd want the steel burr set ($60) separate, so the Vario+ would cost me $590. Though I'd also like the ceramic burrs, and I can't find where to purchase those seperately to add to the W+ so I have the option? (Aren't ceramic better for espresso?)