Baratza Forte vs EK43: Which is Better? - Page 13

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.

Postby guydebord » Jan 10, 2019, 7:25 pm

namelessone wrote:Either way both his blog and instagram seems to be moving in a strange direction, first claiming Decent making V60 superior to any other method and then the grinder comparison. You can also see a pic of the "super light roast" in his words here:

I agree, the dude has been lately playing everyone of his avid readers with a lot of hyperboles and bs. And guess what, its working, good publicity, bad publicity, controversy, it all works and here we are discussing the views of a commercial coffee consultant...
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni


Postby CwD » Jan 10, 2019, 7:37 pm

Why does something controversial have to be insidious? I may not agree with the conclusions, but I've no reason to think Rao is being anything but honert with his experience with the Forte versus his experience with EKs. Especially given Mahlkonig's qc and the low odds of any cafe aligning it right themselves.

If, in what I consider the very low chance, anything fishy was up, I think it's more likely supply side. If I was Baratza, I'd pay whatever it took to have the Forte I was sending to someone as prolific as Rao put under an electron microscope and count the atoms to align it.


Postby ds » Jan 10, 2019, 7:43 pm

CwD wrote: Especially given Mahlkonig's qc and the low odds of any cafe aligning it right themselves.

So you think product that is mass produced in quantities that are multiples of those EK is produced at, at cheaper price, by outsourced factory, could somehow have better QC? Not likely.


Postby mivanitsky » Jan 10, 2019, 7:46 pm

RyanJE wrote:You can have mine, it popcorns too much....

Not really..

Contact Denis with this concern. He has been working on this.

User avatar

Postby rimblas » Jan 10, 2019, 8:14 pm

culturesub wrote:What exactly are his financial interests that would impact this discussion?

Clearly he's gunning for that Baratza Super Bowl commercial :mrgreen:


Postby RyanJE » Jan 10, 2019, 9:55 pm

mivanitsky wrote:Contact Denis with this concern. He has been working on this.

Was being totally sarcastic! It was another comment made by Rao regarding single dosing...
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....


Postby mivanitsky » replying to RyanJE » Jan 10, 2019, 10:04 pm

LOL. I didn't think that it is an issue either for Monoliths, though it of course happens infrequently. That notwithstanding, that it happens at all is enough for Denis to want to do something about it. No one who has experience with Monoliths should really be surprised by this at this point!


Postby pcrussell50 » Mar 19, 2019, 6:22 pm

I found it unclear whether Scott was using the steel burr BG, or the ceramic burr AP. I had assumed he was using the steel. But then:

The bold part...

I don't claim to know much about Baratza's product line, competitors' offerings, etc. Also, I have the Forté AP but also have both burr sets and both receptacle styles (portafilter holder and plastic bin). Sorry for the confusion about those details.

LMWDP #553


Postby Intrepid510 » replying to pcrussell50 » Mar 20, 2019, 8:08 am

In the comments below he states he has only used the steel burrs.


Postby pcrussell50 » Mar 20, 2019, 4:30 pm

Denis wrote:And you believe a Teflon burr holder is equal in alignment with a steel burr holder?

Look at these pictures, the vario's where having alignment problems after few kilos in Europe because here we use really light beans.


Your posts are very good and informative. But you keep referring to the Vario burr holder shelf as "Teflon". While it is clearly a polymer material, it would be an engineering blunder of the highest order to use PTFE in an application requiring rigidity. Further, PTFE tends to be pure snow white. For this reason, I doubt it's PTFE, though it's clearly a polymer material. So the next question becomes, "To what extent does that affect alignment?" As far as I know, nobody has done any actual measurements here. While plastic connotes flexibility, it depends on the force applied. There are plastics you couldn't come close to flexing with ordinary forces, for example. Are we certain the upper burr of the Vario flexes under bean load? And finally, there's this, which is big enough to me, that it can't be dismissed out of hand:
Jake_G in another thread:
Likewise, a burr geometry that yields a tight distribution (such as "unimodal" burrs) will taste better at high extraction yields than a burr geometry that yields a wider distribution (or "bimodal" burrs). Conversley, the wider spread will taste better than the tight spread at low extraction yields and the one constant is that they will taste different from each other at the same extraction yield...

IOW, tight unimodal distributions from perfectly aligned burrs at ultra high EYs are not the only pleasant flavors in espresso, even if they are the latest hotness. Anyone remember not so long ago when super ristretto was the hotness? Some burrs are intentionally designed NOT to be unimodal.

LMWDP #553