Baratza Forte vs Mahlkonig EK43: Which is Better? - Page 12

#111: Post by **RyanJE** » January 10th, 2019, 2:43 pm

Lets not make this all more complicated than it really is! While he may not have a financial interest in Baratza, he certainly does have one in Decent.

And lets be honest, if everything he has been doing and posting about on the decent was done with an EK43 rather than a home grinder, how do you think that would come off to potential customers.

If its an EK43 people say, "yea crazy brew methods and super high extractions that (allegedly) taste good, need an EK43 though...

OR, if its a home grinder then how many people say, "OH! I can do that all at home with a home grinder and dont need an EK43".......

I believe the later scenario is much better marketing and will boost sales (of the DE1) while the former would hurt it.

#112: Post by **RyanP** » January 10th, 2019, 2:50 pm

JayBeck wrote:The comment on ulterior motives wasn't directed at you. I started to not quote but did want to clarify. Sorry about that.

Also 'best' is a relative term. There are many things to consider in a purchase so 'best' compared to what and what is the appropriate weight to give to the various factors involved in a purchase: Price, Size, Durability, Performance, Aesthetics, etc. I probably shouldn't have used the word best and likely got caught up in a very interesting and surprising article.

For example: I think the DE1PRO is the 'best' domestic espresso machine (IMHO) for a lot of reasons I've discussed in other threads. And while I still believe that, why do I want a Profitec Pro 800 with matching custom wood size panels, knobs, and Naked-Portafilter pressure gauge attached? I don't think the espresso will taste any better but man would it be a cool looking machine that's fun to use (aka actually 'pull' a shot, lol). Plus, I'd love a 3.5L steam boiler not because I need to steam milk in 10 seconds but more horsepower is always fun!

One of the things I rate high on the DE1PRO is it's size. I want my espresso machine in my kitchen and I don't want it taking up tons of space. For folks who are using a cart somewhere else in the house, have a giant kitchen, or perhaps have a whole coffee dedicated room, then the size of the DE1 is worth $0 to them whereas it's worth a good chunk of change to me.

Likewise as other users have stated: Part of Scott's claims may very well be the types of shots he's pulling coupled with the beans he's using. Other users may be searching for different shots that a Forte couldn't do (not sure, just hypothesizing). Certainly claims of durability are objective: EK43 is a tank. Forte is a well built appliance that does have a duty cycle on it for 'light use.' Also -- Ek43 may be working 10+ years where the only thing changed is the burrs. A Forte user might be on machine #3 by then. For somewhere where durability is rated very high, Forte would never be considered whereas the typical home user doesn't need a tank (but if they love horsepower, like my Pro 800 desire, then I can see why one would pay 'up' to get a tank of a grinder and feel its giving them value).

Jayson, it feels like we're having two difference conversations. But, while we're missing each other on this one point around making claims, we are largely on the same page. So let's go back to enjoying our espresso. Cheers!

#113: Post by **SteveH** » January 10th, 2019, 3:06 pm

I posted this on the Decent forum, but will repost here. FYI I have a DE1Pro, a Slayer, an EK43 and a Monolith Flat, and have had several other machines and grinders.

"I like a lot of the Rao stuff, but this is just silly. I have an EK here without a million hours of setup that will blow the pants off of any Baratza, and my Monolith Flat while it's at it. It also grinds plenty fine for the Bloomin Espresso profile with any normal amount of coffee (approx 2 on the dial with 20g, maybe 1.7ish with 18g, I assume it would be fine down to perhaps 14g of coffee)"

There are a ton of drawbacks to the EK, and in fact mine is for sale (mainly it's HUGE), but there's just no way you're going to beat it with a Baratza in grind quality for filter OR espresso unless its setup is seriously screwed up. The Monolith puts up more of a fight, but I still prefer the EK, although in this case it's not enough to justify the extra space and setup needed.

January 10th, 2019, 3:17 pm

Well while your at it, you better sell your monolith flat too since you cant possibly make acceptable coffee while single dosing....

January 10th, 2019, 3:20 pm

Dibs.

January 10th, 2019, 3:22 pm

You can have mine, it popcorns too much....

Not really..

#117: Post by **Aguirre** » January 10th, 2019, 3:26 pm

RyanJE wrote:Lets not make this all more complicated than it really is! While he may not have a financial interest in Baratza, he certainly does have one in Decent.

And lets be honest, if everything he has been doing and posting about on the decent was done with an EK43 rather than a home grinder, how do you think that would come off to potential customers.

If its an EK43 people say, "yea crazy brew methods and super high extractions that (allegedly) taste good, need an EK43 though...

OR, if its a home grinder then how many people say, "OH! I can do that all at home with a home grinder and dont need an EK43".......

I believe the later scenario is much better marketing and will boost sales (of the DE1) while the former would hurt it.

Excellent rationale. This to me is the most probable motivation behind Scott's claim.

#118: Post by **JayBeck** » January 10th, 2019, 4:24 pm

RyanJE wrote:Lets not make this all more complicated than it really is! While he may not have a financial interest in Baratza, he certainly does have one in Decent.

And lets be honest, if everything he has been doing and posting about on the decent was done with an EK43 rather than a home grinder, how do you think that would come off to potential customers.

If its an EK43 people say, "yea crazy brew methods and super high extractions that (allegedly) taste good, need an EK43 though...

OR, if its a home grinder then how many people say, "OH! I can do that all at home with a home grinder and dont need an EK43".......

I believe the later scenario is much better marketing and will boost sales (of the DE1) while the former would hurt it.

No, it's not complicated but this rationale is disingenuous.

If Scott was financially motivated, why on earth would he not be pushing the grinder that Decent Espresso actually sells (https://decentespresso.com/pro_grinder). It's cheaper, can be equipped with 64mm SSP burrs, and they actually make money on it. If he compared that grinder to the EK43 I'd agree with you. But he didn't.

Ironically, the Decent Grinder is made by a Chinese company that is owned by Mahlkonig.

January 10th, 2019, 5:23 pm

I would think that it's maybe more likely he just happens to have a Forte BG at his home where he spent the most time dialling in shots and experimenting and probably doesn't own any EK43s. If he spent the same amount of time dialling his own EK43 results might have been different, perhaps?

Either way both his blog and instagram seems to be moving in a strange direction, first claiming Decent making V60 superior to any other method and then the grinder comparison. You can also see a pic of the "super light roast" in his words here:

#120: Post by **culturesub** » January 10th, 2019, 6:09 pm

RyanJE wrote:Lets not make this all more complicated than it really is! While he may not have a financial interest in Baratza, he certainly does have one in Decent.

And lets be honest, if everything he has been doing and posting about on the decent was done with an EK43 rather than a home grinder, how do you think that would come off to potential customers.

If its an EK43 people say, "yea crazy brew methods and super high extractions that (allegedly) taste good, need an EK43 though...

OR, if its a home grinder then how many people say, "OH! I can do that all at home with a home grinder and dont need an EK43".......

I believe the later scenario is much better marketing and will boost sales (of the DE1) while the former would hurt it.

its a $3000 dollar espresso machine, its not exactly an entry level machine.