Arco by goat story - Page 35

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
renatoa

#341: Post by renatoa »

Jonk wrote:Is this really something that needs to be solved though? As long as it grinds fine enough it's a good thing if Arco won't let users accidentally grind at burr lock. Zero point should change some with break in and use - and even if the burr gap is exactly the same, users will have different experiences based on the beans, basket, machine and profile. Also grind speed and tilt of the grinder will have an effect. In the end there's always some trial and error while dialing in.
For fine enough all you need are two stones, as is still used for flour/wheat grinding.
Since those times marketing and influencing has been invented, to convince some of us that nothing is good enough for some people pickiness :D

iyayy

#342: Post by iyayy »

rather than pickiness, people have products to compare, and whatever big claims in kickstarter that comes short of expectations vs existing products is bound to get scrutinized. blame it on the promise of the product promotional video, its not consumers fault.

Acodore

#343: Post by Acodore »

Jonk wrote:Is this really something that needs to be solved though? As long as it grinds fine enough it's a good thing if Arco won't let users accidentally grind at burr lock. Zero point should change some with break in and use - and even if the burr gap is exactly the same, users will have different experiences based on the beans, basket, machine and profile. Also grind speed and tilt of the grinder will have an effect. In the end there's always some trial and error while dialing in.
renatoa wrote:For fine enough all you need are two stones, as is still used for flour/wheat grinding.
Since those times marketing and influencing has been invented, to convince some of us that nothing is good enough for some people pickiness :D
iyayy wrote:rather than pickiness, people have products to compare, and whatever big claims in kickstarter that comes short of expectations vs existing products is bound to get scrutinized. blame it on the promise of the product promotional video, its not consumers fault.
I see both sides on the theme of 'pickiness'.

I'm a KS backer of the UK/Ireland plug 2-in-1, and so eagerly await the second batch's arrival in Ljubljana.

It's fair to assert that those who (unlike me) use their Arco to grind for Espresso will have more exacting requirements of it than those using it only for filter.

But my usage of Arco will be restricted to filter (drip, pourover), cold brew and the like. ("What are you even doing on this Espresso-centric forum?", I hear you ask. Legitimate question. I'm just following with interest a discussion by people who clearly know a thing or two about grinders).

So I'm not sweating it over the grind setting selector ring stopping at -3 clicks instead of at 0, although it's good of course that the creators are working on a fix to the grind range problem. Nor either am I at all put out by the idea of differing particle distributions, hand vs electric.

I just consider myself lucky, as a Early Bird backer, to be getting such a good deal on a really good grinder, one that (by the accounts of many who've gotten theirs so far) can stand proudly amongst the Commandantes & 1Zpressos of the world. :)

iyayy

#344: Post by iyayy »

sorry i started coffee as drip only since 2014 japan, early v60 and cores adopter. I only drink straight brews or lattes, never straight espresso.

and sorry to say i find the italmill burr has been a disservice to my beans. i dont drink much and invest more on beans, and the burr always turns acid notes into 1 dimensional sour mush. no orange, citrus, lemon, or berry here..
dari roasts fares better, slightly more sweet than 1z on dark notes, but lacks the nostril filling aroma and delicate flavor. i would hesitate to go medium with these. but thats probably just me being picky despite owning these toys and having options to choose.

its also closest to my hario ceramic in taste, just much better because of more consistent grind hence more even extractions, but definitely below 1z in brew, maybe even slightly edged out by c2. and c2 has better solid clicks on adjustment at much cheaper price.

otherwise arco unibody is impressive, solid shaft, large bearing, and the sleeve around burr is thoughtful and keeps it mess free. grind lever is rough fit and it usually hits my forefinger a lot. not much place to hold it.

it is undeniably very easy for dialing espresso, very forgiving since each click is small change, shots are gooey thick, and for that purpose its easily recommended classic espresso pairing.


Jonk

#345: Post by Jonk »

For someone who isn't happy with pour overs using their Arco, it ought to be possible to put a Kinu pour over burr in it. There have been mixed reviews about that burr, perhaps the main criticism that it slows down grinding a lot. Arco's electric dock and relatively high RPM should alleviate that issue.

DUCKI3S

#346: Post by DUCKI3S »

So I'm a beginner in espresso and barely not a beginner with pour-over. I've had the Arco for just under a week now and have mostly experimented with brewing espresso using my Anna PID with OPV set to just under 9 bars. So far besides the small issues with stripes not lining up perfectly, it's been great to use as my first "proper" grinder. My experience is that when keeping the extraction time from the first drip constant, the difference in grams in the cup is roughly 2 grams. With WDT the puck looks super clean after extraction, and I haven't noticed any channeling so far. Even on a 55 second long extraction when switching to other beans and grinding too fine(if there is such a thing).

The only issues I'm currently facing are the offset in grind size from the suggested sizes and the settings ring ending 2 steps further than zero. I have not yet received a response on a possible fix for the second issue, for the first one they will be shipping out shims to tune the burr height. Their response time has been great(within a couple of hours over email) and they encouraged me to give them as much feedback as possible for their next version.

I noticed retention to be around 0.1-0.2 grams with only having used around 100 grams of beans so far.

I can't say anything taste-wise yet as my pallette needs some hefty training. Let me know if there are any questions!

renatoa

#347: Post by renatoa »

Personally I arrived at a level of "good enough" saturation, where is more important the pleasure of using the gear, than the perfection of final result.
This includes also other hobbies than coffee... photography for example, the image pure quality, pixel level, is one of the last criteria that interest me.
For a manual grind, one of the three important things for me is to have a removable handle.
The Kinu beta samples been done this way, with removable handle, I have pictures if anyone interested.
The production units removed this feature... bye Kinu for me ! May the taste be with you, you are not for me !

baldheadracing
Supporter ♡

#348: Post by baldheadracing »

baldheadracing wrote:Some interesting first experiences with the grinder, powered vs. hand, from April
Part 2 from April, Espresso, powered only, 11 minutes long.
- My espresso: Swirled, not stirred. My pourover: Stirred, not swirled.

cebseb

#349: Post by cebseb »

baldheadracing wrote:Part 2 from April, Espresso, powered only, 11 minutes long.
video

Very insightful video. Thanks for sharing.

If you don't want to watch the whole thing, main gist is:

Starting at 8:15

They experienced more channeling with this grinder than most other grinders they have used before. Perfectly acceptable shots, though. Some dryness on the palate. Workflow is quite nice, a bit noisy and takes a little bit of time for grinding, but to be expected for a grinder that size and price.

renatoa

#350: Post by renatoa »

Imo, the biggest mistake of such evaluation of any gear, is that the target is the time-pressure-temperature mantra, along with the another big mistake, the flat nine bar or whatever profile.
Grinding is adjusted to fit the extraction in such fixed schema, then start complaining.
Try "offroad" and will be surprised the best taste could far away outside of the well known dead beaten road.
For example 1:3 and 45 seconds extraction, just one of them. Channeling... what is that ?