gritts wrote:For those who are asking for the 3D printer file, this is what Jake kindly shared with me: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c5WHV6 ... p=drivesdk

I asked a Reddit user on a 3D print request forum (u/vertPusher) to print them for me. He quoted me 4 for $12.50, shipped.

Gritts or Jake, what was the material used for printing, PETG?

I used ABS but PTEG will be totally fine.

I have another set in alloy 920. Just needs to be dimensionally stable.

Cheers!

- Jake

Jake - I saw back on page 6 when you first attempted the spacers and noted you were not yet sure if it was worth it. Do you happen to have any additional comments on that? If anyone else has experience with spacers, I'd love to hear too

I'm interested in trying the spacers, but don't want to go through the effort if it's really not worth it!

Jake_G wrote:I used ABS but PTEG will be totally fine.

I have another set in alloy 920. Just needs to be dimensionally stable.

Cheers!

- Jake

Hi Jake, if I have done the alignment and later find that ,after assembly, the alignment is lost when I plug it into the socket
Does that mean I need to tighten the belt more?
Thanks

So I had another go dissembling it, and with the spacers to wiping results was a bit worse even tho I have rubbed the marker ink off during sanding
I thought - what the hell, I will realign with the spacers in. Didn't get the best pattern and just not exactly in the mood to carry on so I reassembled.
Got a rather strange ink test result at first so I did it again, make it touch a bit more with the micro level
and got a lovely half and half

I think I'm gonna give it a rest now, and know that there are reasons a eg-1 costs £4k

bgoods1221 wrote:Jake - I saw back on page 6 when you first attempted the spacers and noted you were not yet sure if it was worth it. Do you happen to have any additional comments on that? If anyone else has experience with spacers, I'd love to hear too

I'm interested in trying the spacers, but don't want to go through the effort if it's really not worth it!

I dont think I did it right
So the spacers are pretty much flush with the burrs so I used a 600grit to give it a sand
Got some meh ink test so sand it again, rubbing all the marker ink off the burr carrier and such
Still not the best, tried loosening the screws a touch
I even realigned with the spacers in, still no go
diy and me aren't a good mix

neohk wrote:Hi Jake, if I have done the alignment and later find that ,after assembly, the alignment is lost when I plug it into the socket
Does that mean I need to tighten the belt more?

I have not run into this specific problem, so I am not sure. As others have noted, the thing with the belt is that it needs to be tight enough to work as a drive belt (not skip teeth, effectively transfer power, etc...), but loose enough to allow the grind chamber to be shifted towards the front of the grinder if needed to get the lower burr carrier true. Since the factory alignment is hit or miss, the amount of starting belt tension that will "work" with the alignment is totally variable. I always loosen the belt a bit, loosen the grind chamber, press the burrs together with the levers and then, apply a gentle amount of belt tension.

neohk wrote:I dont think I did it right
So the spacers are pretty much flush with the burrs so I used a 600grit to give it a sand
Got some meh ink test so sand it again, rubbing all the marker ink off the burr carrier and such
Still not the best, tried loosening the screws a touch
I even realigned with the spacers in, still no go
diy and me aren't a good mix

Sorry to hear that!
I always install spacers after I have a *perfect* ink test. Here is an example of good but not perfect:


To fix this, I did the alignment again, and focused on making sure the levers brought the burrs into contact by feel. Since I knew I was close, I loosened the grind chamber screws about a quarter turn, adjusted the coarse calibration by loosening the screw that goes into the brass adjustment spline and sliding the spline gently towards the rear of the grinder with the levers in a neutral position. This allows the levers to be in a position that allows one to increase or decrease the pressure on the burrs with the levers. Sometimes when the grind chamber screws are loosened, the burrs won't touch any more because the calibration is set at too fine of a touch point. Rather than put it all back together and adjust the calibration point to some specific number, I just put the levers "where I want them" and move the brass adjustment spline.

Ok.

Where are we?

Oh yeah, pattern was good but not perfect, the grind chamber screws are all about a quarter turn loose and the levers are pressing burrs together and yes, I "feel" this. Sorry. I haven't measured the amount of force but basically the levers are holding the burrs together so that even if I reach in and push the lower burr further into the grinder with my finger tips (it's upside down, so this is a reasonable thing to do to ensure the levers are pressing the burrs together and the lower burr hasn't simply fallen into place), the burrs still scrape when I turn the motor pulley and the motor pulley turns with a bit of resistance.

So from here, I just tightened the screws in little baby steps and kept the levers applying gentle pressure. Probably 3 passes to go a quarter turn on the grind chamber screws. And I got this:


Only when the pattern looks like this can you determine if the shims are "working". Here's the deal. If I tighten the screws real tight without the spacers, the burr will taco and I will lose ink transfer around the 3 screws, but the areas between the screws will retain an even ink pattern. The spacers simply allow me to fully tighten the burrs without this happening. Starting with a perfect pattern is necessary because you know the spacers are complete and correct when you loosely install the screws and the pattern is still perfect (no high spots on the spacers) and then when you tighten the screws, the ink pattern remains perfect (the spacers are thick enough to prevent the burrs from being pulled towards the burr carriers).

DIY is not for everyone. Don't feel bad. You have given it a valiant effort!

In regards to any of this being "worth it", my commentary was never around whether or not any of this will result in a better ink test, as it absolutely will, when executed carefully with a little bit of luck on your side. My point was simply that taste is king and all this ink pattern business is simply a leading indicator of the upper ceiling of taste capabilities of the grinder. Some folks will be perfectly happy with their grinders out of the box. Others will find taste defects that they wish to correct. A perfect ink pattern eliminates alignment as being a variable that may be leading to taste defects. If eliminating that variable raises the ceiling and results in better coffee for someone, then yes. It is absolutely worth it to them. Beyond that, all that really matters is that you enjoy the process of making and drinking your coffee.

Cheers!

- Jake

Jake_G wrote:I have not run into this specific problem, so I am not sure. As others have noted, the thing with the belt is that it needs to be tight enough to work as a drive belt (not skip teeth, effectively transfer power, etc...), but loose enough to allow the grind chamber to be shifted towards the front of the grinder if needed to get the lower burr carrier true. Since the factory alignment is hit or miss, the amount of starting belt tension that will "work" with the alignment is totally variable. I always loosen the belt a bit, loosen the grind chamber, press the burrs together with the levers and then, apply a gentle amount of belt tension.

Sorry to hear that!
I always install spacers after I have a *perfect* ink test. Here is an example of good but not perfect:
image

To fix this, I did the alignment again, and focused on making sure the levers brought the burrs into contact by feel. Since I knew I was close, I loosened the grind chamber screws about a quarter turn, adjusted the coarse calibration by loosening the screw that goes into the brass adjustment spline and sliding the spline gently towards the rear of the grinder with the levers in a neutral position. This allows the levers to be in a position that allows one to increase or decrease the pressure on the burrs with the levers. Sometimes when the grind chamber screws are loosened, the burrs won't touch any more because the calibration is set at too fine of a touch point. Rather than put it all back together and adjust the calibration point to some specific number, I just put the levers "where I want them" and move the brass adjustment spline.

Ok.

Where are we?

Oh yeah, pattern was good but not perfect, the grind chamber screws are all about a quarter turn loose and the levers are pressing burrs together and yes, I "feel" this. Sorry. I haven't measured the amount of force but basically the levers are holding the burrs together so that even if I reach in and push the lower burr further into the grinder with my finger tips (it's upside down, so this is a reasonable thing to do to ensure the levers are pressing the burrs together and the lower burr hasn't simply fallen into place), the burrs still scrape when I turn the motor pulley and the motor pulley turns with a bit of resistance.

So from here, I just tightened the screws in little baby steps and kept the levers applying gentle pressure. Probably 3 passes to go a quarter turn on the grind chamber screws. And I got this:
image

Only when the pattern looks like this can you determine if the shims are "working". Here's the deal. If I tighten the screws real tight without the spacers, the burr will taco and I will lose ink transfer around the 3 screws, but the areas between the screws will retain an even ink pattern. The spacers simply allow me to fully tighten the burrs without this happening. Starting with a perfect pattern is necessary because you know the spacers are complete and correct when you loosely install the screws and the pattern is still perfect (no high spots on the spacers) and then when you tighten the screws, the ink pattern remains perfect (the spacers are thick enough to prevent the burrs from being pulled towards the burr carriers).

DIY is not for everyone. Don't feel bad. You have given it a valiant effort!

In regards to any of this being "worth it", my commentary was never around whether or not any of this will result in a better ink test, as it absolutely will, when executed carefully with a little bit of luck on your side. My point was simply that taste is king and all this ink pattern business is simply a leading indicator of the upper ceiling of taste capabilities of the grinder. Some folks will be perfectly happy with their grinders out of the box. Others will find taste defects that they wish to correct. A perfect ink pattern eliminates alignment as being a variable that may be leading to taste defects. If eliminating that variable raises the ceiling and results in better coffee for someone, then yes. It is absolutely worth it to them. Beyond that, all that really matters is that you enjoy the process of making and drinking your coffee.

Cheers!

- Jake

Ah Thank you for your detailed guide!
I was probably a bit tired after a few hours so I gave up haha

So this is what I did this time - previous comments said not to leave the belt too loose so I tightened it more this time, at one point it made a 'clack' sound and I thought that doesn't sound nice so I loosened the key a bit. Perhaps the factor default was already way too tight so I should have gone even more loose
Thing is, I got 'perfect' ink test with a loosely screwed burr, spinning by hand, and 'good but not perfect' with spacers in
I tried aligning with the spacers in because I had it disassembled anyway, still not perfect results but I thought I'd live with it

However the sticking issue is when I reassemble it, I got a meh ink test and re-test it, I suppose the belt has more time to do its work now so I got the half and half again. Maybe I'd use to old school foil shims next time I can be bothered

at the moment I recalibrated it back to 2Q just so I know where the starting points are - People say 4M for V60 and it was a tad coarse for my brewing so I'm just playing with the grinder now

edit: probably just my imagination but took off the back to feel the belt. it seems a bit stiffer on one side, don't imagine it matters but in case it explains my problems? lol

I really appreciate the effort Jake has put into this thread. As replacement parts are coming in (I suspect my lower burr carrier is tilted for some reason), I will definitely give the alignment a shot next week

on a similar topic, I was referred to a 3d printing company who did it at a reasonable price
I don;t know about if rules allow mentioning the company or not
At any rate - The spacers I got were pretty much flush with the burrs anyway, i didn't get a 'perfect' wipe off it but perhaps I just didn't sand it carefully enough lol

So I asked the Baratza rep that I have been working with for an issue on my forte, about aligning the grinders in house, about if they are a able to get a perfect alignment, and of they would offer it as a paid service to have it aligned. His response essentially, was that they always consider, but final results aren't consistent, post assembly, nor did they find enough of a discernable improvement to warrant more stringent alignment.

So it sounds like the issues some guys have had in retaining the alignment, are in fact an issue. Which is most likely a result of the internal design. Of course we know it's possible because a few guys have done it successfully, but it will most likely take some patience, and some trial and error before you get it right.

I won't even get to confirm if my alignment stuck because it is being replaced due to a weight dosing issue. My burr spacers still haven't arrived to put the steel burrs in to check it. So I'll have to do it again with the new forte.