Michael, thanks so much for the informative videos and lively discussion. I'm super-jealous of your astounding grinder collection and ability to pit grinders and burrs against each other in this amazing head-to-head shootout. There is one other one I am curious to see compared, the Option-O Lagom P64. I am about to receive mine after pre-ordering it months ago, but I won't be able to compare it to anything except my Niche Zero and Fellow Ode. Not sure how many of you on this thread follow James Hoffman's videos on YouTube, but you might have noticed in recent ones that his set is littered with nearly all of the high end brands Michael captured in his review (plus one or two missing, like the Lagom P64). He confirmed in his latest video just posted today that he is working on a "series on high-end grinders and an ultimate showdown" at the 4:40 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqgVGTuDMDc Will be very curious to see how The Hoff rates them, although I can't imagine he will go anywhere as deep into burr comparisons as you have done. So, thanks for the reviews! Cheers!

Also very interested in a Lagom P64 test - preferably with the "old" / first unimodal geometry burrs rather than the new one

coffeemmichael wrote:video

Bonus Round- the Ditting 804 Lab Sweet

Tend to agree on this one. For filter brewing cast burr in my experience is vastly superior to machined burrs, there is simply put no competition, In fact I personally would never consider any other type of burrs.

I know Frank and Hansung also found cast burrs to be better for brewed, since then I have heard the same opinion expressed from different roasters and baristas.

For spro I think it really depends on what ratio/style and roast you like, for shorter ratio machined seems to be the better choice, for longer cast, so my own findings seems to be very similar to yours. No surprisingly as it seem to share the same taste preferences.

And yes 804 cast burrs is the only one I ever tasted that did well at both spro and filter. In fact I tend to prefer them to the EK. This is also Why I consider getting the Ozik Column grinder because it according to them can use those burrs.

waxnyc wrote:There is one other one I am curious to see compared, the Option-O Lagom P64. I am about to receive mine after pre-ordering it months ago, but I won't be able to compare it to anything except my Niche Zero and Fellow Ode.

valoben wrote:Also very interested in a Lagom P64 test - preferably with the "old" / first unimodal geometry burrs rather than the new one

I had one on order & canceled when The US distributor's order was delayed 6+ weeks

I know there's an appetite for this to be tested, but I question how actionable any results would be. If the entire premise of the lagom means "just enough", unless it somehow surpasses the quality of the expensive units that explicitly are aimed at trying to be the best at x y or z, how will the review actually help someone make a decision as to whether or not they should get it? If i rank it last or even in the bottom half, does that change anyone's expectations of it?

The unit would stand alone in the ranking as being an *expensive* small burr with intentionally set low expectations- and we already have two of those in the niche & ode (at a much lower pricepoint)

Yes, in the videos I explicitly am focusing on flavor- but for me, I don't see where this fits into this lineup especially at such a high cost to enter

Valid points, Michael. Your showdown clearly revealed the absolute state-of-the-art regardless of price. The only thing that makes a comparison interesting is whether or not one can achieve 90% of the state-of-the-art for 50% of the cost (or, in the case of Niche Zero, closer to 25% of the cost). Selfishly, I am also curious to see if there is enough taste/quality headspace to warrant yet ANOTHER upgrade (oy vey, this expensive hobby of ours!), or if the Lagom is good enough, with very steep diminishing returns to get one level above. Other than those considerations, I would say your reviews rest on their merits and have gone deeper than any I have seen on what are truly cult grinder/burr products that are simultaneously both expensive AND difficult to obtain.

coffeemmichael wrote: I know there's an appetite for this to be tested, but I question how actionable any results would be. If the entire premise of the lagom means "just enough", unless it somehow surpasses the quality of the expensive units that explicitly are aimed at trying to be the best at x y or z, how will the review actually help someone make a decision as to whether or not they should get it? If i rank it last or even in the bottom half, does that change anyone's expectations of it?

The unit would stand alone in the ranking as being an *expensive* small burr with intentionally set low expectations- and we already have two of those in the niche & ode (at a much lower pricepoint)

Yes, in the videos I explicitly am focusing on flavor- but for me, I don't see where this fits into this lineup especially at such a high cost to enter

Seeing how close/far it is to other grinders could incite people to go for this high-end grinder without jumping to the next price level. I know people on home-barista are mostly from the USA, but for those who are not, importing a Kafatek grinder has HUGE taxes which make the product less attractive considering how much is spent on something other than the desired item. If there wasn't this problem, I'd probably have gotten a MC3 or Flat.

In my case, seeing someone more experienced giving an honest, detailed review like you did would help me plan if at some point I'll want to sell it/upgrade it (let's say for the Ditting 804, you got me interested in that one) or not.

The Lagom is expensive indeed, but still far away from most of the grinders tested in the showdown. It has a few features which are usually not seen at this price point (aligned flat designed for single dosing espresso, with RPM control, ± supposedly good filter coffee with unimodal burr set). I do not know enough about the impact from burr size to judge if that alone makes it unattractive at this price point in comparison to its bigger brothers in the showdown.

Thank you for the tests, I liked the format and content of the Grinder showdown more than any other coffee gear review found on youtube

coffeemmichael wrote:I had one on order & canceled when The US distributor's order was delayed 6+ weeks

I know there's an appetite for this to be tested, but I question how actionable any results would be. If the entire premise of the lagom means "just enough", unless it somehow surpasses the quality of the expensive units that explicitly are aimed at trying to be the best at x y or z, how will the review actually help someone make a decision as to whether or not they should get it? If i rank it last or even in the bottom half, does that change anyone's expectations of it?

The unit would stand alone in the ranking as being an *expensive* small burr with intentionally set low expectations- and we already have two of those in the niche & ode (at a much lower pricepoint)

Yes, in the videos I explicitly am focusing on flavor- but for me, I don't see where this fits into this lineup especially at such a high cost to enter

For an American it might not make nearly as much sense, so I do understand where your going with this. But for a European it's approximately 50% off the cheapest Kafatek flat an EK43 or a Nautilus, that means it actually have a place in the market although it's strictly speaking is still expensive for the seize of burrset it provide, there is really nothing else that offer the same set of features. You could of course put a pair of SSP in both the Ode and Wilfa Uniform and both would be like half the price of the lagom, but they would still not be usable for spro, it would not changer the lower build and worse alignment. So for none American I think it kinda make sense, at least untill more options become available in that price range.

The P64 pre-orders from September have finally arrived at Prima Coffee as of yesterday and are due to be shipped this week. I should receive mine by Wednesday or Thursday. I can directly compare it to my Niche Zero and Fellow Ode, but not to the exotics in Michael's collection. Hmm, should I loan mine to Michael for a couple of weeks??? Mine is coming with the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs, not the unimodal brew burrs. So we would still be short one burr set contender. But still...

There are at least five more contenders in this series in the pipeline as of now

I'm looking forward to it!
Lagom P64, Weber EG-1, Shuriken Burrs, Monolith Conical?