Jeff wrote:Thanks!

Not questioning, just trying to understand your insights

I've got a JX-Pro and I find the increments acceptable for espresso dial in, but not great. I think I'd be frustrated without those additional steps (on a "plain" JX).

I guess it depends on the machine. For a flair espresso machine the standard JX is enough. If you need more adjustments there is always the J max

Prior to buying the J-Max I reached out to 1Zpresso and asked if I would notice any difference, benefits or negatives between the JE-Plus vs the J-Max.

Received this reply from 1Zpresso, "Both grinders are the overall grinders and it is ideal for espresso.
Yes, the main difference between these two grinders is the burr design and the adjustment design.

J-Max (8.8 microns) has more minor steps compared to JE-Plus (12.5 microns).
It allows you to find sweetspot of the espresso.

ojt wrote:This may be also a question of personal preference or something. Example: Many seem happy with the Comandante clicks even for espresso, but I would be a bit lost without the the essentially stepless settings on the Kinu. You don't always need them but if you really need to fine tune, you can.

I don't mind clicks -- actually I like them -- IFF they are close enough together. Steplessness alone doesn't help if I cannot turn the dial reliably in a small enough "increment".

I think what is being discussed with JX,JE,Max etc is satisfactoriness of size of increment. 8.8 microns on the J-Max is so tiny, I bet few can tell the difference between one click and the one on either side of it. To me this is the definition of "fine enough", If I can't tell two adjacent clicks apart I know I am not missing something.

But it is not just about absolute increment. In my limited experience, it depends on the burrs. I found 25 microns to be not fine enough on the JX, but adequate on the JE, a similar grinder with a finer burr set.

YMMV

from
Model----------------JE---JE-Plus--JX-Pro--J-Max
Microns Per Click-------25--12.5----12.5----8.8

After reading this thread and other reviews, I chose a JX Pro, after using a Q Mini for three full years. The difference in grind times for espresso is vast: 55-60 turns of the crank as opposed to 240-250 for the 11 grams of coffee I use for my daily shot-and-a-half. Grind quality is similar and excellent. My elbows are grateful. As for acidity, I find that very much dependent on the coffee. I've tried some highly-touted espresso roasts at well-known espresso bars and found them so acidic as to be undrinkable, both in shots pulled at the bar and at home. I choose less acidic varieties for espresso, though the more acidic ones are fine for other brewing methods.

For me the real question was, would the stepped adjustments be fine enough? For me the answer was yes, although imo step adjustments in an espresso grinder can never be too fine. Also, I should mention that my JX Pro arrived with no parts missing, perfectly adjusted, and tight as a drum. The JE Plus may be even better, though the number of step adjustments seems to be the same as in the JX Pro.

The bottom line is, as someone who makes one and only one espresso each day, thanks to 1ZPresso, I would never even consider an electric espresso grinder. Great build quality for the price.

redbone wrote:Prior to buying the J-Max I reached out to 1Zpresso and asked if I would notice any difference, benefits or negatives between the JE-Plus vs the J-Max.

Received this reply from 1Zpresso, "Both grinders are the overall grinders and it is ideal for espresso.
Yes, the main difference between these two grinders is the burr design and the adjustment design.

J-Max (8.8 microns) has more minor steps compared to JE-Plus (12.5 microns).
It allows you to find sweetspot of the espresso.

They seem to indicate to me that the JE would be creamier then the j max based on my conversation

After using the JE I could never use their other grinders

Believe the JE series uses Italmill burrs, similar to what's used in the Kinu and Arco grinders.

That is an interesting comment. My experience with high-end commercial grade grinders is mostly limited to high-end espresso bars, and comparing their espresso roast when they grind the beans and pull the shot to when I do it with their coffee beans. The JE may well have superior burrs, and I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks for the tip.

But acidity in espresso is a topic unto itself. IMO, certain varieties of coffee, especially when roasted only to medium darkness, are vastly too acidic for espresso. At one well-known place in my area that roasts their own of numerous varieties (including many 'single origin'), I was reminded of the Emperor's New Clothes, as patrons seemed to be happily drinking battery acid. I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

So I'd be interested in exactly what varieties are being used by anyone discussing espresso taste.

I compared all the grinders in the original post using a Brazil Pulp Natural (Fazenda do Sertao) at Full City plus roast

I also compared them using a Honduras ( Honda Fredy Vasquez) at Full city plus. Which has lower acidity then other Central Americans I have.

Those should both be very good for espresso and claim to have low acidity, though they are both apparently single origin. I'm probably much less of an experienced espresso expert and connoisseur than you, but over the years I've had more success with blends for espresso. One of my favorite blends has what is described as French Roast Brazilian as a "key" component that "softens" the flavor. Though, I'm also willing to accept slightly more acidity than that one has.

Generally, my approach to espresso, coffee generally and many other things is to try to get the best possible results with the least equipment, the simplest equipment, and/or the least expensive equipment. That makes me an outlier here. For a long time I ground espresso with a Hario skerton that I modified to make adjustment stepless. My Q Mini, the predecessor to today's Q2, is also stepless. So the JX Pro is cheating for me, making grinding ridiculously fast, easy and reliable. However. I'm not willing to accept fewer or larger steps than 12.5 microns, which turns out to be only just enough, in my opinion.

They do make a JE pro for finer steps

Don't get me wrong the JX and Q2 are great grinders. But I'm more of a traditionalist when it comes to espresso and prefer the creamy and balanced flavor of the JE