Do my fellow NY people use anything other than tap water

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
chockfullofbutts
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#1: Post by chockfullofbutts »

Hi
Just wondering what people in NYC use. When I got my first E61 machine I tested my TDS and I got about 50 on my meter, which I understand is perfect.
I don't have too much build up in my kettle or other machines, but wondering what other people do and what some of the best cafes use if anyone knows?

NicoNYC
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#2: Post by NicoNYC »

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I have been using NYC tap water with no problems for a few years now. I'm curious to see the other responses here, especially if someone knows what some of the better coffee shops are doing to their water.

Here is last years' water quality report put out by the DEP, you can see both the average and range of the test values for a number of minerals and microbes. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dep/downloa ... report.pdf The values are within the specified max from various sources (inc. La Marzocco), I think if anything our water is a little on the soft side.
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another_jim
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#3: Post by another_jim »

There's the prize winning NYC tap water from the Finger Lakes, which is pretty perfect for coffee; but you only get it in parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn. Other places get much less grand water from Jersey. The Fingerlakes water is around 50 TDS; the Jersey water around 150. You can also check with the local web sites for the water source for your neighborhood.
Jim Schulman

martuney
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#4: Post by martuney »

another_jim wrote:There's the prize winning NYC tap water from the Finger Lakes, which is pretty perfect for coffee; but you only get it in parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn. Other places get much less grand water from Jersey. The Finger lakes water is around 50 TDS; the Jersey water around 150. You can also check with the local web sites for the water source for your neighborhood.
Hi, Jim, I completely don't understand your answer; as far as I know, none of NYC's water comes from the Finger Lakes or New Jersey. It comes from the Catskills through the Croton Reservoir then down through the Bronx, into Manhattan and then through Queens into Brooklyn and Staten Island.

BaristaMcBob
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#5: Post by BaristaMcBob »

Martuney is correct. However, Finger Lakes water is relevant only in that it is perfect water. Meaning, it has the right balance of minerals so that it tastes good. This might be urban legend, but I read somewhere that the engineered waters (Dasani, Smart Water) are based on the mineral profile of Finger Lakes water.

I just use an under-sink filter by 3M. Then I have a BWT filter in my espresso machine's water tank.

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homeburrero
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#6: Post by homeburrero »

NicoNYC wrote: Here is last years' water quality report put out by the DEP, you can see both the average and range of the test values for a number of minerals and microbes. https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dep/downloa ... report.pdf The values are within the specified max from various sources (inc. La Marzocco), I think if anything our water is a little on the soft side.
That is an excellent report for NYC, much better than the usual consumer confidence report that most utilities provide. And as Nico says, the water is on the soft side with:
Total hardness between 17-105 mg/L as CaCO3 (35 mg/L average)
Alkalinity between 13-68 mg/L as CaCO3 (26 mg/L average).

It also has chloride ion at 11 - 68 mg/L (25 mg/L average) that might be a corrosion concern for people very cautious about chloride corrosion. Synesso, for example, recommends RO treatment to remove chloride when it's over 15 mg/L.

The low alkalinity and the borderline chloride would argue against the use of decarbonizing filters that are often recommended for espresso machine water treatment.


Nice reference - a very detailed read if you want details about the sources, treatment, and history of NYC water.
Pat
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OK31
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#7: Post by OK31 »

Feels like this report for NYC is annually same which is good.

So as I still also go back and forth with to plumb or not and while just perusing some materials for a slayer the espressocoffeeparts has this:

So we recommend the following water filters for this machine; EV9613-21 or the 2015B with a Dual Head System.

What do I make of that? Pat you may recall we already discuss somewhat at length the testing prima coffee did for me both filtered and it and their recommendation was also for a pentair everpure system. I'm curious what this one does if anything. Though still somewhat remote from going plumbed I do want to be prepared in the event it can happen.

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homeburrero
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#8: Post by homeburrero »

OK31 wrote: So as I still also go back and forth with to plumb or not and while just perusing some materials for a slayer the espressocoffeeparts has this:

So we recommend the following water filters for this machine; EV9613-21 or the 2015B with a Dual Head System.

What do I make of that? Pat you may recall we already discuss somewhat at length the testing prima coffee did for me both filtered and it and their recommendation was also for a pentair everpure system. I'm curious what this one does if anything. Though still somewhat remote from going plumbed I do want to be prepared in the event it can happen.
That EV9613-21, is a fairly high capacity filter that removes particulates, chlorine, off-tastes and odors. It is not a decarbonizer (which is good here) and would not reduce hardness nor alkalinity. It does have a scale inhibitor that may help with scale risk, although you don't have much scale risk with NYC water. It's probably more capacity than you need, with a service flow of 1.67 gpm and a capacity of 9000 gallons. You need to replace it every 6 months even if you are nowhere near that 9000 gallon capacity.

Their 2015B is functionally similar - - not a decarbonizer, just charcoal, particulates, and a scale inhibitor. Each filter has a service flow of 0.5 gpm and capacity of 3000 gallons, so a dual head setup should give you 1 gpm and 6000 gallons, You'd need to replace both filters at 6 month intervals.

Looking back to the earlier Prima advice: NYC water analysis help , they recommended a Everpure EV927560 QL2-OCS2. That is functionally similar to the others, but lower capacity. In a single cartridge setup it would have a service flow of 0.5 gpm and a capacity of 1500 gallons. If your needs are less than 8 gallons per day, this might be the best fit of the three.

None of these will reduce your alkalinity nor pH (which is good). Also, none of them will reduce your calcium hardness, nor your chloride ion, which for typical NYC water is probably not needed anyway.
Pat
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mgrayson
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#9: Post by mgrayson »

I usually used filtered NYC water with some minerals added back. For a few years, I used NYC tapwater, and then, for the first time ever, had to descale. The water reservoir was also getting coated in the brown stuff water filters tend to collect. The water tastes good, but I don't think it should be living in my machine.

OK31
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#10: Post by OK31 »

homeburrero wrote:That EV9613-21, is a fairly high capacity filter that removes particulates, chlorine, off-tastes and odors. It is not a decarbonizer (which is good here) and would not reduce hardness nor alkalinity. It does have a scale inhibitor that may help with scale risk, although you don't have much scale risk with NYC water. It's probably more capacity than you need, with a service flow of 1.67 gpm and a capacity of 9000 gallons. You need to replace it every 6 months even if you are nowhere near that 9000 gallon capacity.

Their 2015B is functionally similar - - not a decarbonizer, just charcoal, particulates, and a scale inhibitor. Each filter has a service flow of 0.5 gpm and capacity of 3000 gallons, so a dual head setup should give you 1 gpm and 6000 gallons, You'd need to replace both filters at 6 month intervals.

Looking back to the earlier Prima advice: NYC water analysis help , they recommended a Everpure EV927560 QL2-OCS2. That is functionally similar to the others, but lower capacity. In a single cartridge setup it would have a service flow of 0.5 gpm and a capacity of 1500 gallons. If your needs are less than 8 gallons per day, this might be the best fit of the three.

None of these will reduce your alkalinity nor pH (which is good). Also, none of them will reduce your calcium hardness, nor your chloride ion, which for typical NYC water is probably not needed anyway.
Helpful thank you. I'm hardly going through 8 gallons a day at least not for espresso so even if I use the hot tap on the machine for tea cooking and cleaning PF I can't imagine hitting that volume. Price wise changing every 6months would put me in the just buy bottles category. Decisions decisions.

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