Olympia Cremina vs Maximatic and Thinking about What's Next
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drH
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
I've been thinking a lot lately about my future upgrades in espresso. I feel incredibly grateful that, by good luck and circumstance, I'm able to have both an Olympia Maximatic and a Cremina on my counter at the moment. (Please feel free to ask any questions you have in this thread).
Thinking about what's next in my espresso journey has prompted me to weigh the pros and cons of these two machines in an effort to better articulate what I might be missing, if anything.
After two years of use I feel like I have a good handle on both machines, where they shine, outshine each other, or fall short. The thoughts I'm posting below are general, borne from many months of side-by-side use and espresso tastings. Though no tastings have been blinded, I've tested many coffees back-to-back on each and spent time dialing them in with different beans and roast styles with different grinders (including the Niche, Atom75, Helor 106, and Olympia Moca). I tried to break this down into a few factors that, to me at least, showcase the differences in the machines.
Thinking about what's next in my espresso journey has prompted me to weigh the pros and cons of these two machines in an effort to better articulate what I might be missing, if anything.
After two years of use I feel like I have a good handle on both machines, where they shine, outshine each other, or fall short. The thoughts I'm posting below are general, borne from many months of side-by-side use and espresso tastings. Though no tastings have been blinded, I've tested many coffees back-to-back on each and spent time dialing them in with different beans and roast styles with different grinders (including the Niche, Atom75, Helor 106, and Olympia Moca). I tried to break this down into a few factors that, to me at least, showcase the differences in the machines.
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drH (original poster)
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
Ease of use and the "Forgiveness" factor
Both machines are easy in different ways. The Maximatic has the advantage of playing to the Barista's expectations: It's an HX pump machine and you can dial it in just as you would any other machine. Adjust grind and dose, flush to temperature, and dialing in is simple.
But, the headspace on the Maxi is small (by design), so if you try to fit more than 14 grams in the double basket your shot is ruined. Even when you do it right, it will punish you for bad puck prep with spritzing and channeling. After reading about the Linea Mini, I get the sense that the Maxi is similarly old school - it's not forgiving, but if you get it right the machine is extremely consistent. With a good grinder and careful prep you can repeatably get wonderful espresso.
The Cremina on the other hand is more forgiving than your local pastor. The lever preinfusion and manual pressure profile means that I've seen channeling maybe twice in two years of use (my fault for grinding too fine and applying too much pressure). Because it's so easy to adjust extraction based on feel, I usually don't have to play with the grind very much to get a tasty shot. The downside of this is that it can be hard to diagnose errors because you don't taste them as much.
The Cremina is also crazy clean - no backflushing, pucks come out dry, no water in the drip tray.
Both machines are easy in different ways. The Maximatic has the advantage of playing to the Barista's expectations: It's an HX pump machine and you can dial it in just as you would any other machine. Adjust grind and dose, flush to temperature, and dialing in is simple.
But, the headspace on the Maxi is small (by design), so if you try to fit more than 14 grams in the double basket your shot is ruined. Even when you do it right, it will punish you for bad puck prep with spritzing and channeling. After reading about the Linea Mini, I get the sense that the Maxi is similarly old school - it's not forgiving, but if you get it right the machine is extremely consistent. With a good grinder and careful prep you can repeatably get wonderful espresso.
The Cremina on the other hand is more forgiving than your local pastor. The lever preinfusion and manual pressure profile means that I've seen channeling maybe twice in two years of use (my fault for grinding too fine and applying too much pressure). Because it's so easy to adjust extraction based on feel, I usually don't have to play with the grind very much to get a tasty shot. The downside of this is that it can be hard to diagnose errors because you don't taste them as much.
The Cremina is also crazy clean - no backflushing, pucks come out dry, no water in the drip tray.
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drH (original poster)
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
Temperature
The Maximatic is an HX machine and requires flushing to temperature. Most of the time I enjoy this process and love the mechanical simplicity of the construction. On the other hand, water flushing is messy and, even if you catch it all in a cup, be prepared to empty the drip tray and wipe the machine after every session. I have never tried to fine-tune the temperature by flushing. For me there are two options - hot, just after flash boiling stops, and cool, maybe 10-15 seconds beyond hot.
That said, independent tests show (see here: Olympia Express Maximatic - ein schwieriger Zweikreiser-Testhttps://www.kaffeemacher.ch ' blog) that the Maximatic has excellent temperature stability. It's easy to be consistent once you get the hang of it.
The Cremina's brew group idles (in my kitchen) at 79C, and it takes less than 15 minutes to reach that temperature with a few quick pumps of the lever. I find 79C to be perfect for most coffees, but occasionally I dry pump the machine to 85C for lighter roasts.
Once you make the first coffee, you'll want to fix in a cold portafilter to cool the group (~5min). After a second shot, I routinely see 93C, and need a cold portafilter and a cool rag (or 10min) before I make another coffee. I have a small thermocouple on the Cremina group so I can keep tabs on temperature - this was essential for me in beginning, but I can fly without it now that I have a good feel for the machine.
So, is temperature management hard? Not at all, but it will slow you down and it might be a deal-breaker if you want to make coffee drinks for a table of guests.
The Maximatic is an HX machine and requires flushing to temperature. Most of the time I enjoy this process and love the mechanical simplicity of the construction. On the other hand, water flushing is messy and, even if you catch it all in a cup, be prepared to empty the drip tray and wipe the machine after every session. I have never tried to fine-tune the temperature by flushing. For me there are two options - hot, just after flash boiling stops, and cool, maybe 10-15 seconds beyond hot.
That said, independent tests show (see here: Olympia Express Maximatic - ein schwieriger Zweikreiser-Testhttps://www.kaffeemacher.ch ' blog) that the Maximatic has excellent temperature stability. It's easy to be consistent once you get the hang of it.
The Cremina's brew group idles (in my kitchen) at 79C, and it takes less than 15 minutes to reach that temperature with a few quick pumps of the lever. I find 79C to be perfect for most coffees, but occasionally I dry pump the machine to 85C for lighter roasts.
Once you make the first coffee, you'll want to fix in a cold portafilter to cool the group (~5min). After a second shot, I routinely see 93C, and need a cold portafilter and a cool rag (or 10min) before I make another coffee. I have a small thermocouple on the Cremina group so I can keep tabs on temperature - this was essential for me in beginning, but I can fly without it now that I have a good feel for the machine.
So, is temperature management hard? Not at all, but it will slow you down and it might be a deal-breaker if you want to make coffee drinks for a table of guests.
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drH (original poster)
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
Maintenance
Not much to say about the Maximatic. It's the usual backflush cleaning routine. I'm the only coffee drinker in the house and I run a detergent backflush about once a month. In two years I replaced the group gasket once.
The Cremina has essentially no daily or weekly maintenance. It mostly stays clean with a microfiber cloth. It's a dream, and on both machines I use puck screens or aero press filters to keep the shower screens pristine.
One item to note is that Cremina group service has to be done about every 8-12 months depending on your use. This involves cleaning and lubricating the piston, and maybe changing the piston and group seals. There are videos online that cover the process, and the best one is posted on the Olympia Express Facebook page. While the process is not hard, there is no question that it can be intimidating for the first timer, especially if you aren't used to working with tools. I didn't have a wrench or hex driver or circlip plier in the house before I owned the Cremina, so I had to buy the right tools from scratch. My lever pins were stuck and I had to soak them in grease and tap them out with a plastic mallet. Now when I do a group service it's a 15 minute job, but the first time took me a few hours of false starts, ripped group gaskets, and bent circlips. I should say that working on the Cremina gives you an appreciation for how well it's made - everything is stainless or solid brass and it becomes obvious why they stay functional for 50+ years. Now that I know what I'm doing, I look forward to usual cleaning routine.
Not much to say about the Maximatic. It's the usual backflush cleaning routine. I'm the only coffee drinker in the house and I run a detergent backflush about once a month. In two years I replaced the group gasket once.
The Cremina has essentially no daily or weekly maintenance. It mostly stays clean with a microfiber cloth. It's a dream, and on both machines I use puck screens or aero press filters to keep the shower screens pristine.
One item to note is that Cremina group service has to be done about every 8-12 months depending on your use. This involves cleaning and lubricating the piston, and maybe changing the piston and group seals. There are videos online that cover the process, and the best one is posted on the Olympia Express Facebook page. While the process is not hard, there is no question that it can be intimidating for the first timer, especially if you aren't used to working with tools. I didn't have a wrench or hex driver or circlip plier in the house before I owned the Cremina, so I had to buy the right tools from scratch. My lever pins were stuck and I had to soak them in grease and tap them out with a plastic mallet. Now when I do a group service it's a 15 minute job, but the first time took me a few hours of false starts, ripped group gaskets, and bent circlips. I should say that working on the Cremina gives you an appreciation for how well it's made - everything is stainless or solid brass and it becomes obvious why they stay functional for 50+ years. Now that I know what I'm doing, I look forward to usual cleaning routine.
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drH (original poster)
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
Taste
This is a hard one. Everyone who visits asks me if the machines have different effects on taste, and after two years I still struggle to give a coherent answer.
This is because I can get excellent and nearly indistinguishable espresso from both of them if I take the time to dial in a bean.
To me, the differences are exemplified by:
-How easy it is to dial in
The Cremina offers the most flexibility here because the manual lever gives you a lot of room to get the grind wrong and still get a great shot by adjusting on the fly. The other side of this coin is that, in theory, the Cremina has more variables to adjust. Is the espresso too sour? Do you want to adjust the grind? Pump up the temperature? Lengthen the preinfusion? Increase or decrease your extraction flow? You have to decide which variables to hold steady when you make changes.
When I use the Maximatic, I usually go through a few shots before I get to the recipe I like - but the process is straightforward with the usual changes to grind and ratio.
-The results at roast extremes (very dark or very light)
This is a matter of personal preference. If you have a light roast the Cremina will let you extract a beautiful, thick, delicious espresso at a short ratio because you can hold long preinfusions or slow the flow rate. On the Maximatic you can flush less for a higher temperature and pull a longer ratio (which is restricted with the Cremina's fixed group volume). So which do you prefer, full extractions at shorter brew volumes, or do you like the 1:2 or 1:3+ ratios?
It's my opinion, but I believe the Cremina is the winner for very dark roasts. Sure, to avoid bitterness you can pull short shots or flush to lower the temperature on the Maximatic, but on the Cremina you can grind course, keep the temperature low, and pull at low pressure to get beautiful sweet caramel shots from dark roasts. If you don't like roasty flavors, this won't matter to you. But, if that's your thing the Cremina can do it better than most semiautomatic machines I've tried. I've had beans so dark I'd normally compost them, but find myself surprised that I can make a pretty good shot with them on the Cremina.
Beyond what I've written above, both machines have a very similar flavor profile. The Cremina hits the coffee with a blast of hot water when you raise the lever - the Maximatic has minimal head-space and ramps to pressure quickly. The result is that both tend toward thick, viscous espresso.
This is a hard one. Everyone who visits asks me if the machines have different effects on taste, and after two years I still struggle to give a coherent answer.
This is because I can get excellent and nearly indistinguishable espresso from both of them if I take the time to dial in a bean.
To me, the differences are exemplified by:
-How easy it is to dial in
The Cremina offers the most flexibility here because the manual lever gives you a lot of room to get the grind wrong and still get a great shot by adjusting on the fly. The other side of this coin is that, in theory, the Cremina has more variables to adjust. Is the espresso too sour? Do you want to adjust the grind? Pump up the temperature? Lengthen the preinfusion? Increase or decrease your extraction flow? You have to decide which variables to hold steady when you make changes.
When I use the Maximatic, I usually go through a few shots before I get to the recipe I like - but the process is straightforward with the usual changes to grind and ratio.
-The results at roast extremes (very dark or very light)
This is a matter of personal preference. If you have a light roast the Cremina will let you extract a beautiful, thick, delicious espresso at a short ratio because you can hold long preinfusions or slow the flow rate. On the Maximatic you can flush less for a higher temperature and pull a longer ratio (which is restricted with the Cremina's fixed group volume). So which do you prefer, full extractions at shorter brew volumes, or do you like the 1:2 or 1:3+ ratios?
It's my opinion, but I believe the Cremina is the winner for very dark roasts. Sure, to avoid bitterness you can pull short shots or flush to lower the temperature on the Maximatic, but on the Cremina you can grind course, keep the temperature low, and pull at low pressure to get beautiful sweet caramel shots from dark roasts. If you don't like roasty flavors, this won't matter to you. But, if that's your thing the Cremina can do it better than most semiautomatic machines I've tried. I've had beans so dark I'd normally compost them, but find myself surprised that I can make a pretty good shot with them on the Cremina.
Beyond what I've written above, both machines have a very similar flavor profile. The Cremina hits the coffee with a blast of hot water when you raise the lever - the Maximatic has minimal head-space and ramps to pressure quickly. The result is that both tend toward thick, viscous espresso.
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drH (original poster)
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
Final thoughts and thinking about the future
Overall, I'm very happy with the quality of espresso from both of these machines, and I'm hard pressed to decide what could be an improvement.
An obvious potential upgrade could be the grinder: currently I use the Olympia Moca 64mm Flat and the Helor 106 71mm manual Conical. Both are great, but I may be missing something with the preparation of lighter roast.
Another possible improvement is workflow. A machine that required no flushing, no temperature management, had a hot water wand, and could stay on 24/7 would be a convenience upgrade (I usually keep a kettle going for tea and americanos). But, I don't expect it to necessarily improve the espresso much.
So what does the community think? My thoughts go to a possible future setup with a Linea Mini (maybe gear pump modified) and a high-end grinder like the Lab Sweet or Monolith Flat. I'd love a big spring lever but cabinet height forbids it, and my water situation prevents plumbing-in.
Feel free to post your thoughts and also any comments/questions you have about the Cremina/Maximatic.
Overall, I'm very happy with the quality of espresso from both of these machines, and I'm hard pressed to decide what could be an improvement.
An obvious potential upgrade could be the grinder: currently I use the Olympia Moca 64mm Flat and the Helor 106 71mm manual Conical. Both are great, but I may be missing something with the preparation of lighter roast.
Another possible improvement is workflow. A machine that required no flushing, no temperature management, had a hot water wand, and could stay on 24/7 would be a convenience upgrade (I usually keep a kettle going for tea and americanos). But, I don't expect it to necessarily improve the espresso much.
So what does the community think? My thoughts go to a possible future setup with a Linea Mini (maybe gear pump modified) and a high-end grinder like the Lab Sweet or Monolith Flat. I'd love a big spring lever but cabinet height forbids it, and my water situation prevents plumbing-in.
Feel free to post your thoughts and also any comments/questions you have about the Cremina/Maximatic.
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pham
- Posts: 85
- Joined: 3 years ago
You get workflow improvements on larger, more stable machines in some ways but you also take a step backwards in a different type of convenience. The thought of warming up a machine for an hour to make 2 double shots and head to work really irks me, flushing a pump machine to keep it clean, having to lift a huge machine just to set it up or move it around the house, its just a lot. The Cremina is versatile, easy to maintain, scratches the fancy-itch, and is wonderfully compact. It'll do long and fast on a light roast, it'll do short and slow on a dark roast, and it won't go through precious recipe water like crazy. It's also dead silent.
If you want a spring lever, there's always the SL.
If you want a spring lever, there's always the SL.
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NicoNYC
- Posts: 181
- Joined: 3 years ago
Thanks for the in-depth comparison of the two Olympias. Are yours vintage or the new versions? It doesn't seem like they've done much that would affect either the user-experience or the in-cup result, but I suppose it bears clarification.
I've kept my eyes out for a Maximatic, mostly because it's one of the smallest footprint semi-autos (and bonus points for Bauhaus looks), but it doesn't get the same accolades as the Cremina, it's nice to see a good comparison from someone with both.
I've kept my eyes out for a Maximatic, mostly because it's one of the smallest footprint semi-autos (and bonus points for Bauhaus looks), but it doesn't get the same accolades as the Cremina, it's nice to see a good comparison from someone with both.
LMWDP #718
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drH (original poster)
- Posts: 891
- Joined: 4 years ago
Good point, both Olympias are from 2020.
I'm not aware of any recent changes (after 2011) that would effect performance (isn't that when the heat break was added to the Cremina?).
I believe that somewhere around 2017 they replaced some brass components in the Maximatic with stainless. Also the powder coated frames on both machines changed from mild steel to stainless.
There was some talk last year about a possible change to pump on the Maximatic but I don't know if that happened.
I'm not aware of any recent changes (after 2011) that would effect performance (isn't that when the heat break was added to the Cremina?).
I believe that somewhere around 2017 they replaced some brass components in the Maximatic with stainless. Also the powder coated frames on both machines changed from mild steel to stainless.
There was some talk last year about a possible change to pump on the Maximatic but I don't know if that happened.
