Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In - Page 11

[CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)]

I made a 2023 update to my first post this morning. Fixed links, added images, and some commentary reflective of some recent posts.

[Rerona]

I found a place that sells a water tank locally (https://www.westmarine.com/todd-3-gallo ... 45255.html). I'm looking at the other parts now. For the pump, is there quieter solutions? I'm a little concerned based on reviews how loud it runs. Or would the only real solution be to get a big enough accumulator so it doesn't need to run as often?

[spressomon]

I have owned 3 different brands of diaphragm type pumps for various water delivery systems over the years and although they all can be construed as "noisy" the Aquatec isn't quite as loud (relative); it seems smoother in its vibration pattern (kinda of like the difference between a stroker motor and higher revving motor with less cam lift). Use vibration isolating pads between the mounting surface and the pump's feet and for best sound isolation, construct a box lined with acoustic foam panels, sound deadening material, over the pump itself.

And to minimize vibration transfer from the inlet and outlet side of the pump, if you can, incorporate a short section of softer durometer/more flexible water line if you are using more rigid water tubing within the system. This will absorb some of the vibration that would otherwise be transmitted throughout the system. This is more of a concern, say in an RV , where larger diameter PEX type water lines are used. FWIW/FYI, I didn't bother with deploying this technique in my espresso machine water delivery system.

This box still needs some ventilation, however the pump doesn't run that long in my system (I'm using a 2-gallon SS Shurflo accumulator; bigger is better to minimize pump cycling and high/low pressure differentials within the water delivery system). Isolating the mounting feet of the accumulator also helps isolate vibration, although less so than isolating the pump.

The accumulator will lengthen the time between pump cycles. You should also note, the water pressure measured at the espresso machine, will have a range: Higher PSI/BAR right after the pump cycles and lower PSI/BAR right before the pump cycles. Most of the pumps have an adjustable pressure switch but when you're shopping pay attention to the minimum & maximum PSI range for pump on/off cycling. The more narrow this range, the smaller the differential between high and low system water pressure (but the more frequent it will cycle). Probably the biggest reason to incorporate an accumulator within your system and to go with the largest capacity you can within the respective space for the system: Less frequent cycling of the pump and more consistent water pressure at the espresso machine.

Regulators, I have found through using water delivery systems for my espresso machines the past 10+ years, are complex beasts all their own. Incorporating a pressure regulator will allow you to set a static water pressure level for the system but the system will still have a pressure range. Here's a link that provides an overview of what they do and what you can expect it to perform for the system:
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/blogs ... es-it-work

All in all, even given the limitations I describe above, I prefer this type of water delivery system over a more complex and expensive array of filters, mineral add-backs, etc., from a consistent pressure regulated municipal water supply, that provides the ability & versatility to easily use whatever water I want.

[SamBousak]

Great build and very thorough follow ups. I'm planning setup for a Linea Mini to cater events of 50-100 people and am evaluating something like this vs a typical flojet and small accumulator vs simply putting the mini's braided hose into the 5 gallon drum with a check valve. Seems like the third option would be by far the easiest although I do wonder why everyone seems to use flojets or some sort of external pump if the mini's rotary pump is rated to pull water without line pressure even from a small height.

Would this setup hold up in a light commercial use?

[CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)]

That's a LM question. What is the pump rated for? But for very little $ you can avoid the question and go easy on the LM pump. You can go with a smaller accumulator if you don't mind the pump being triggered more often which seems ok in your use case. Caffewerks makes speciality 5gallon jugs for your use.

[SamBousak]

Good call to ask them. They recommended the aquatec pump for durability and an accumulator so I'll go with that.

Once I'm up and running I'll update with how everything performs for a mobile setup being disconnected a few times a week.

Thanks

[TimeForCafe]

Amazing build(s)! Thanks for all the advice for this water system newbie.

I need feedback: What size water pump (GPM if applicable) and accumulator would you recommend for the following use case?

Similar to others I intend on having this water system set up in a portable coffee cart for events - as such I will need an espresso line, pitcher line and (if possible) line for batch brewing. Since it's event based this is all high volume within a 1.5 hour time span with much less volume thereafter. Any tips on if the original build could meet that sort of demand?

(PS This is an entirely new dilemma because prior to this my system was tap based - now migrating over to espresso and hot drip has flipped this on its head -for drip I'm intending on having (2) gallons prepped but have a concern about extended freshness and the need to brew more- I hope I'm not biting off more than I can...sip with this kind of set up.)

Definitely appreciate any and all feedback.

[Moka 1 Cup]

Excellent work. I was finally able to read it entirely. A lot of good information. Thanks!

[Moka 1 Cup]

I have to apologize in advance for some stupid questions. Unfortunately I have zero knowledge/experience about how these on demand systems work.

I am planning on buying the Aquatec pump 5853-7E12-J524 (1.7 GPM 60 PSI 3/8 inch JG 120V).

I am thinking about coupling it with an accumulator tank and a pressure regulator. The tank most probably will be the Aquatec ACT-820-JG or a similar size (at the moment I don't think I have room for anything bigger than that).

I will feed a Profitec pro 800. I keep the boiler pressure at about 1 Bar.

What would be the right pre-charge pressure for the tank?
What about the regulator?
Can the pump minimum and maximum pressure be changed, and in that case to what values?
Finally, is there even the remote possibility that the system could dangerously increase the pressure inside the boiler, for example in case of failure of the pressure regulator?

[CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)]

You need a regulator to reduce income pressure. Why only 1 Bar. I know nothing of the Profitec but that is very low. Most of the time people have 3-5 Bar.

Leave the accumulator alone when you get it; if there's a problem you can address its pressure. Too many people mess around and screw it up. You will have to look at but specs call for 20PSI I see. I would leave it.

Pump pressure can't be changed with that model so you need the regulator. Honestly if precise pressure is needed invest in a Swagelok and be super happy with the Lever as you adjust precise pressures.

Even if there's a pressure increase wouldn't the boiler handle it. You might just get a a fast shot???? Again I don't know much about the Profitec 800.