Roasting Profiles for Espresso? - Page 2

January 21st, 2007, 7:23 pm

another_jim wrote:I'd be interested to know how it goes. My experiment yielded a too bright taste, but terrific aromas (unfortunately nothing like the taste, a bait and switch roast if I've ever tasted one). Getting the taste match the aroma will be my next job.

Just pulled the first shot of this roast profile at 4 days (and 30 minutes) rest (mason jar vac sealed directly post roast cooling as is my roast rest and storage norm). All I can say so far is WOW! Definitely seems much better top end definition but not lacking anywhere else. I'd say perfectly balanced but that's just going too darned far! Besides, then wouldn't leave room for improvement, and there's always room for improvement.

But dang, one of the best shots of anything I've had in a very long time. Of course, didn't roast any using the previous profile at the same time to compare so taste memory comes into play. Tomorrow or Tuesday plan to roast 3 or 4 slightly different profiles for direct comparisons. (half of each also being sent to Abe to compare)

Jim, IIRC this profile was a minute longer start of 1st to end of roast than yours, might try lengthening a hair.

I'll post the detailed profiles after comparisons done by myself and Abe.

#12: Post by **cafeIKE** » January 21st, 2007, 8:12 pm

I don't want to rain on the parade, but we must consider the variables.

For example, last Friday, I roasted a batch and after two days it was, well, terrible. The dry aroma was quite nice, but the cup not so. Weedy would be the best descriptor. I haven't roasted this bean since the summer, when it was excellent.

I left the remainder of the batch in the cupboard in a vented jar until this morning, a full 9 days later. The average temperature is probably about 60°F in the cupboard. When I opened the jar, the aroma was fair, but faint. Nothing exciting.

In the cup, it was astounding. The weediness was completely gone. Mocha notes were outstanding. A great balanced taste with a back end that wouldn't quit. Y_U_M

Normally, I'd expect a 9 day old roast to be ready for the bin, especially in the summer when the average temperature is about 75°F.

Which leads me to speculate whether there is "a roast".

There maybe a roast in a roaster for a bean / blend in a condition rested for a time ground on a grinder pulled on a machine by a barista on a day in a season.

Whether said roast would transfer across the street, town, county or planet maybe open to discussion.

What say ye to this, stout fellows?

January 22nd, 2007, 9:19 am

cafeIKE wrote:Which leads me to speculate whether there is "a roast".

There maybe a roast in a roaster for a bean / blend in a condition rested for a time ground on a grinder pulled on a machine by a barista on a day in a season.

Whether said roast would transfer across the street, town, county or planet maybe open to discussion.

What say ye to this, stout fellows?

Of course this is no one single best roast profile, who ever said or implied there was?

For a specific bean/blend from my experience and that of other's there is little or no reason to believe a specific profile is not transportable with very duplicatable results, including across roasting platforms.

#14: Post by **Arto** » January 22nd, 2007, 2:36 pm

Until now my standard procedure has been to increase the temp up till 260 ° C chamber temp (around 15 min), and stop the roast when desired roast-level has been reached (around 20 min).

Works OK, but I will experiment more... Shorter times has been to acid/non-sweet to me

January 23rd, 2007, 12:53 pm

Well the pressure's on! Getting ready to roast three 1/2# batches of my Winter Solstice Blend attempting to (relatively) accurately vary the start of 1st to end of roast profiles while maintaining the same earlier stage profile.

FWIW just in case you're wondering the blend consists of Aged Sumatra DP 17.4%, Monsooned Malabar 8.7%, Brazil Cerrado DP 19.7%, Brazil Cerrado CD 19.7%, Kenya Gethumbwini 17.4%, Panama Eleta 17.4%

Profile will be as follows with temps measured in slow moving Caffe' Rosto bean mass:
150f @ 30 sec
200f @ 1 min
250f @ 2
275f @ 3
300f @ 4
325f @ 5
350f @ 6
375f @ 7
400f @ 8 min (anticipated start of 1st)

Profile1 (current excellent batch with level ramp)
410f @ 9
420f @ 10
430f @ 11
440f @ 12
450f @ 13 end of roast tickling 2nd

Profile2 slow fast
406.7f @ 9
414.3f @ 10
420f @ 11
435f @ 12
450f @ 13 end of roast

Profile3 fast slow
415f @ 9
430f @ 10
440f @ 11
445f @ 12
450f @ 13 end of roast

Approx' cooling in Rosto down to
275f @ 14
200f @ 15
150f @ 16
100f @ 17

1/4# of each finished roast will be sent to Abe valve bag sealed shipped USPS Priority today, I'll keep the remainder of each batch. Originally had challenged Abe to simply try what I felt was a quality "close but no cigar" espresso air roast. But now imposing three different profiles on him.

So you may or may not get more than one person's review of whatever differences may result.

#16: Post by **another_jim** » January 23rd, 2007, 7:15 pm

It'll be interesting to see how the different profiles turn out. I'm using a 50/50 Idido-Cenaproc mix done on the new profile, stopped quite light, 7F before the first pops of the second, at City+, for an espresso dosing experiment. So far it's working as planned -- sweetly drinkable shots no matter how I abuse the blend.

January 23rd, 2007, 7:54 pm

another_jim wrote:...done on the new profile...

Would you mind posting the specifics for your new profile. I know many may find it boring and or useless, but I'm a glutton for punishment.

It will indeed be interesting so see what differences are apparent with those three different finish profiles I did today. But must wait at least three days preferably four ideally five to try them out!

I do know prolile1 has been stellar days 3 through 6. Haven't messed with shot temp variation much keeping primarily around competition ~200f temp. Or more accurately using HX flash-n-go intra-shot profile with definite HX hump pulling peak temps ~202f with main shot fairly level ~200f. Only tried as high as ~203f and as low as ~200f HX hump start of shot temps, all good but different of course. The 2nd shot pulled this afternoon with lower temp ~200f HX hump which would be ~198f main shot surprised me in the amount of sweet brightness maintained with no hint of sour.

#18: Post by **another_jim** » January 23rd, 2007, 8:33 pm

another_jim wrote:I'm sort of fixed on

0 - 1 min to 250F (basically top speed)
1 - 4 min to 300F (drying phase, an absolute must)
4 - 7 min to 380F (top speed again, the longer you're here, the worse it tastes)
7 - 11/12 min to the end, 11 for brewing, 12 for espresso (balance fast vividness and slower sweetness)

But I'm now experimenting with an extra step, slowing down to 10f per minute through the first crack, and speeding to 15f/min afterwards. I'm hoping this will produce a better tradeoff of vivid and sweet. It'll take a few months before I can decide.

Final stage is split in two:

7 - 10 min to 415F
10 - 11/12 to final temp, 1 minute to 420 to 430 for cupping, 2 minutes to 435 to 450 for espresso.

For calibration purposes: 1st crack 395F to 410F; 2nd crack from 442F to 452F

January 23rd, 2007, 8:51 pm

This is where I'm confused. If 7-10min to 415f from start of 1st @395f, a 20f temp rise, and experimenting with 10f/min ramp doesn't fit the 3 minute 7-10 minutes!? Also if I understand correctly, you're using a total time of 5 min from start of 1st to end of roast for espresso roasts? (Which happens to be what I just shortened mine down to from 6 min with good results.)

#20: Post by **cpl593h** » January 23rd, 2007, 9:17 pm

Jim - is this a preblend? I have both of those in my stash, I'd love to see if I get similar results.