Vibe pump vs Rotary - Page 2

#11: Post by **RapidCoffee** » May 6th, 2009, 12:40 pm

+1 on the rotary pump. This a significant upgrade that impacts every pour, every PF wiggle, every flush. Honestly, I don't understand the logic in manufacturing a $2K+ machine and then outfitting it with a vibe pump. It's hard to imagine going back to the buzz of a vibe pump after experiencing the purr of a rotary.

JonR10 wrote:Respectfully I say "bullcookies"

Um... is that even possible?

#12: Post by **Bluecold** » May 6th, 2009, 1:01 pm

JonR10 wrote: my experience with rotary pumps is that they tend to be more "bulletproof" by a wide margin.

I don't say that they are infallible. They just do not -in general- break down nearly as fast as you describe, and your arguments are wrong.

Um....and you don't think this fact is indicative of overall reliability?

No, i don't. Electric coils just heat up. And if they heat up too much, they melt. Simple as that.

In several years of active participation I would conservatively estimate that online forum reports of vibe pump failures outnumber similar reports of rotary pump failures 10 to 1 (and it's quite possible that comparison should be more like 20 or even 100 to 1)

Which is to be expected since vibepumps probably outsell rotary pumps 100:1 (hell, probably a lot more).

Also, if silence and reliability are top concerns, then i'd search for a spring lever machine.

#13: Post by **JonR10** » May 6th, 2009, 2:06 pm

Bluecold wrote:Which is to be expected since vibepumps probably outsell rotary pumps 100:1 (hell, probably a lot more).

Of course you surely realize that this statement doesn't "stroke" with your earlier statement that there are very few stories to be found of people burning up vibe pumps.

Simply put, 100% of the people I know that have used both vibe and rotary pump espresso machines at home strongly prefer rotary pumps even though it has no effect on the espresso quality itself.

You may have the last words if you choose, I've said all I can (and more than I should have) on this topic.

EDIT:

RapidCoffee wrote:Um... is that even possible?

I believe it's only legally allowed in Texas and Oklahoma but I'm open to being corrected on that.

#14: Post by **Beezer** » May 6th, 2009, 2:08 pm

I've owned several vibe pump machines, and I've never had to replace a pump (knock on wood). This is despite some pretty hard use, including accidentally running the machine dry and running the pump for longer than recommended.

So I believe that vibe pumps may be durable than people give them credit for. I'm sure they wouldn't hold up to heavy use in a commercial establishment, but for most home consumers they're just fine.

Considering how much cheaper vibe pumps are to replace than rotaries, they seem like a pretty good deal. But I do agree that if I were paying nearly $2,000 for a machine, I'd prefer to have a rotary for the added quietness and the generally more beefy build quality.

Anyway, I think we've beaten this particular dead horse quite enough.

#15: Post by **stefano65** » May 6th, 2009, 2:40 pm

In addition to all said about the difference
the peak to reach pressure is faster from a rotary plumbed
then from a vibe pump.

#16: Post by **RapidCoffee** » May 6th, 2009, 5:12 pm

stefano65 wrote:In addition to all said about the difference
the peak to reach pressure is faster from a rotary plumbed then from a vibe pump.

Actually, this is a good point. Vibe pumps offer a bit of preinfusion, due to the slower ramp up of pressure. (Not an issue on the OP's machines, which feature the preinfusing E61 grouphead.)

May 6th, 2009, 5:16 pm

You folks are entirely too knowledgable about these things! Well - appreciate the advice. And in the end - I have chosen to buck up - get the water plumbed to the kitchen and go with the direct connect. (My wife shot me that look of - "you want me to move around a 70 lb machine to pour water into it?" - and since its a gift for mothers day...well....decision was made)

Vibiemme Double Boiler PID/Rotary Vane Pump with the direct connect.
Mazzo Mini grinder.

One last question

My water line is coming off the home water softener - is that sufficient to soften the water? (Was told from the person at 1st-line it was - but never stray away from a second opinion)

Look forward to sharing my experience with everyone. Thanks again for the advice.

#18: Post by **stefano65** » May 6th, 2009, 7:16 pm

Paul since you talked to us as well,
the hardness of your water will be the answer to your question

we have hard water and we are on a well
so we have a main one and one only for the espresso machine
only for the espresso machine

but listen to the company that you'll be buying from since they will be the one to hear from you if there is scale ( which by the way is not cover under any warranty)
I'll be better safe then sorry
but test your water

#19: Post by **Yeti** » May 6th, 2009, 7:29 pm

MCM wrote:decision was made...
Vibiemme Double Boiler PID/Rotary Vane Pump with the direct connect

After much debate I've come to the same conclusion for my new machine, now just getting one in Canada

#20: Post by **RapidCoffee** » May 6th, 2009, 8:28 pm

MCM wrote:Vibiemme Double Boiler PID/Rotary Vane Pump with the direct connect.
Mazzo Mini grinder.

My water line is coming off the home water softener - is that sufficient to soften the water?

Wow, great starter setup. A far cry from my steam toy plus whirly blade grinder. Kids these days...

In case it hasn't been mentioned, you'll want a pressure regulator on the input water line to the machine. I'd recommend a water (taste) filter as well as a softener.