1976 La San Marco Tipo 75 two group [Finished] - Page 3

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#21: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

truemagellen wrote:If you need to borrow please let me know
I decided to just buy the tool because of what I'll explain below.

I got my frame back from my Metal guy. It was powdercoated a black with 80% gloss, really shiny and nice looking. I also had him clean up the lower stainless steel panels that slip on the bottom of the frame, the boiler lid, and the corroded feet. The o ring I am trying out fit extremelly well, and it is a perfect snug fit inside. I am really optimistic it will work with this boiler lid style. Please don't mind the Marte missing its body panels in the back, that is how I found it best to move it without assistance.



I assembled the two groups when I received my Eevad order containing the last parts needed to begin. I first started with the lower groups and installed the preinfusion valve + one way valve. The former is a little difficult to install due to the strong springs necessary to keep water from escaping from the boiler when pressurized. I had to push down while turning the threads to get them to engage. The one way valve was easy enough to install, and they tightened perfectly in the correct position.





The upper group starts with the lever fork and rod assembly. I was able to reuse the original bearings after cleaning and regreasing them. The roller pins will stick to the bushing when the tacky grease is applied. There is a lever fork pin that is pressed through the bushing and pins. My ball bearings were made in the USSR, and this is not the first time I've seen that on espresso machines.







The felt washer is stuffed in a recess in the upper group housing and the piston rod can be inserted then secured with the bearing bolts. The springs can be installed after, and I had to compress the big spring about 0.5 inches to allow the spring nut to thread on. At this point the upper group is inserted without the piston into the lower group because the fat piston v gasket flares out too much to be inserted from above. Thus it needed to be screwed in below, and is why I decided to just buy the tool for future maintenance. I was able to hand tighten the pistons enough they are when the groups are standing upright for the short term.










With that they are both assembled minus the portafilter gasket and showerscreen. The preinfusion lever had the roller pins replaced but they are otherwise in good shape. There is a tiny bit of play with the left group due to wear but it should not impede function. I did however need to use loctite instead of a rod pin for the same group because it screws tighter than the pin hole can align properly.


-Ryan
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truemagellen
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#22: Post by truemagellen »

USSR bearings, a gentle reminder of time :lol:

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#23: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

This is about 2 months worth of update going on here.

After the groups were assembled I focused on cleaning up the little feet. They were severely corroded, so the first thing I did was media blast them. I then used a folded piece of 240 grit sanding belt attached to a jacob's chuck adapted for my little omega grinder to get rid of as much pitting without compromosing the integrity of the foot. I hand sanded dry to 800 grit then up to 5000 mesh grit wet (320 600 800 1000 1500 2000 3000 5000 grits were used). I am posting the original condition of the feet again because I was quite happy with the results.






I replaced the rubber feet that were all basically disintegrated with new ones I sourced from rubberfeet.us Large Round Rubber Feet - .500 H x 1.312 . It cost me $7 with shipping and removing the metal bushing allows me to fit the M6 thread that secures the foot to the frame perfectly. I made sure there was clearance so the hex head was not touching the surface the machine rests on.






I mounted the groups afterwards. I used new stainless setup studs to replace the old ones since they were slightly damaged in the thread (pre removal). I needed to make sure the one way valve was not interfering with the flange, which will happen if not tightened to a correct orientation. I did receive the piston tool so the pistons are tightened properly. When pulling the levers down they are so strong that the frame tilts without the boiler. However I hear rubbing of the spring and bore on the left group so I'll need to adjust that later.







The bakelite handles were cleaned up and polished. They were lightly sanded then polished on my Baldor buffer with white tripoli. I learned a trick to use a screwdriver to hold the round piece against the wheel so one spot is not focused on during polishing (also useful for sanding which I did with the feet).







The valves were assembled this week. The steam taps and hot water tap are the same design, but I had to replace one of the fittings due to cracks in the old one. The replacement has a 1/4" BSP thread so I will need to braze a new pipe for that. I also assembled the water inlet valve, but I will need to test if it can hold pressure since the modern inlets have a slightly different design. I am using a steam tap teflon conical gasket (which is what the modern ones use) and a 7x3mm o ring.





The cup warmer valve came together too. And this is the current state of the machine. I was waiting for 240V to be installed which happened today, so I can proceed forward with my two San Marco machines. The breaker is 20A 240V with GFCI, plently for my needs.





-Ryan
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IamOiman (original poster)
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#24: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

The boiler was mounted with teflon tape and copper crush washers. I'll soon find out if I tightened the big two nuts enough connecting the boiler to the group flanges.



The heating elements were attached after to the cleaned boiler lid. The terminals and screws were also cleaned but separately in the tumbler. New M10 bolts were installed once the pstat bracket was made.




To connect the pstat to the boiler I had to adapt one of the original nuts to a pipe I made. This is because the thread the nut screws on is not BSP, but a metric thread. I used a compression bushing instead of a normal nipple when brazing. I then used an adapter to go from 3/8" BSP to 1/4" BSP and had a second pipe brazed to connect to the pstat. I also made another pipe for the steam arm since the replacement fitting for the steam valve is not the original 3/8" BSP. Wiring was the last step completed before testing.







I did turn on the machine tonight, wired for 240V 20A (the original elements are calculated to draw 13A). I filled the boiler with 7 liters of water to immerse the elements fully. I let the machine start pressurizing briefly and noted three leaks: one of the steam valves and the hot water valve leak from their valve gasket even though the actuating arms are in their rest position. I am unsure if that is due to weakened springs or poor seating of the valve gasket. The third leak noted was the hot water pipe to the boiler connection but I will need to see what else will leak if I can get to operating pressure first. For tonight though I will let the machine cool down then tighten the fittings a little more.


-Ryan
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Jake_G
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#25: Post by Jake_G »

Ryan,

Not sure how many of these toggle valves you've rebuilt, but these LSM valves have an interesting setup in that the main nut that secures the toggle to the valve body cannot be fully tightened. Doing so pulls the toggle body into the valve stem and opens the valves...

So before you dig in too much, try just snugging the outer toggle nuts enough that they don't rattle.

Looking great as always,

Cheers!

- Jake
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IamOiman (original poster)
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#26: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

ohh that worked just as described! Nice catch. I did not have issues on the older LSM 69 so I did not even consider this solution
-Ryan
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truemagellen
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#27: Post by truemagellen »

Jake_G wrote:Ryan,

Not sure how many of these toggle valves you've rebuilt, but these LSM valves have an interesting setup in that the main nut that secures the toggle to the valve body cannot be fully tightened. Doing so pulls the toggle body into the valve stem and opens the valves...

So before you dig in too much, try just snugging the outer toggle nuts enough that they don't rattle.

Looking great as always,

Cheers!

- Jake
This explains a friends machine from a decade ago we gave up on the toggle valves. :shock: :mrgreen:

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IamOiman (original poster)
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#28: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

The valves were fixed up. It does not need much turning to adjust the valve where the gasket seals against its lip, I only needed one half of a turn for both valves.


After some on/off cycles and chasing most of the leaks away I was able to pull my first shots this morning. The new springs are quite strong so I did not coarsen my grind size and used 15.5g of Saka Espresso Bar to good effect.




Unfortunately I'll need to stop and think what to do for addressing the one persistent leak (and one I expected): the hot water pipe fitting. After multiple attempts and applying more and more loctite 55 the worn threads on the fitting do not lock well to the boiler fitting threads, and a leak always develops. It is not like the modern San Marco machines that use a 3/8-1/4 BSP fitting as far as I know and uses a currently unknown thread size that is not BSP. I will need to investigate and see if a new fitting is necessary.

-Ryan
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grog
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#29: Post by grog »

Damn Ryan, that is looking incredible. Can't wait to see it completely reassembled.
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IamOiman (original poster)
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#30: Post by IamOiman (original poster) »

It has been quite a while since an update, and that was primarily waiting for a replica fitting to arrive that was made by a friend for me. It's actually the second one because the first fitting that was made and shipped in January was lost by USPS. I can confidently say that the thread going into the boiler is M19 x 1.25.The boiler female threads were a little worn but I think I managed to get to a point where it seals under pressure. I had to use a 16 x 2.5mm o-ring with some sealant. The only thing I'd suggest if doing something similar is to make the hex head a little bigger so that the o-ring can spread out and have a bigger sealing area (mine is 22mm compared to the original 27mm head).









I've been chasing down really tiny leaks, and I think I'm at a point where I can put on the body panels. I replaced the screws for the group covers (they are #6 x 3/8"). For leaks the only one that remains is the water inlet, where it leaks water at an incredibly slow rate. One of the levers is missing because it's getting loaned out to my LSM 69 whose original lever handle was cracking.




-Ryan
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