Versalab M3: not a pleasant whirring sound

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
thirdshifter
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#1: Post by thirdshifter »

Alright folks, new m3 owner here. I'm just now dialing it in for Black Cat, and it seems like I'm getting a pretty harsh metallic sound (when running) when I'm at espresso settings -- I assume this is the burrs touching a bit somewhere. I'm around 1/4 turn CCW from where the burrs meet, which is suggested as a good starting point. If I back it out just a little more to a coarser setting the shrieking disappears and I get the "pleasant whirring" described in the manual. But I'm getting gushers there. So I guess I'm wondering if others get this metallic sound at their espresso settings.
Is this normal?-- if so it doesn't really bother me. I may be paranoid because of everything I've read on here about the m3 and its alignment. m3 owners chime in!

Also the bolt in the main pulley seems slightly off center -- I'm guessing this is normal and a product of the manual alignment done by whoever put this m3 together.....see below. M3 owners let me know if the above just seems normal or anything to worry about. THANKS!

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Terranova
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#2: Post by Terranova »

Hi Zach,

Regarding the first video, I really cannot figure out where it is touching. Doesn't sound like the burrs touching, you should move the upper funnel to the right and left to see when exactly it starts chirping and if it is really the burrs making the noise. (which I doubt)
Don't be afraid, nothing can break when the burrs are slightly touching, try to find the point where they touch and mark it as the zero point.
If you are really 45° away from zero for espresso setting then your grinder is OK regarding parallelism of the cutting parts.
I would guess, the noise comes from the top of the moving wiper touching the lowest part of the upper funnel. (not a big deal if you can grind fine enough)

2nd video is just cosmetically because of a bad quality screw.
If you want to try some more wipers, just send a PM and I can send you some. (you just pay for the shipping)

Good luck

thirdshifter (original poster)
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#3: Post by thirdshifter (original poster) »

Terranova -- thank you so much for your attention and help with this matter. I made another video below. As you can see, at about 1/4 turn I'm not getting much harsh metallic noise (I actually think you can just start to hear it a bit). Then, just a bit closer than 1/4 turn (maybe 40 degrees) you can really hear the harsh chirping. I'm not sure exactly where my effective espresso range is yet -- is 1/4 turn typical? For Black Cat I suspect I was going to be close to 35 or 40 degrees -- right where the chirping gets loud -- but I stopped dialing in when I heard the noise.
Does this align with your suggestion that it is the top of the moving wiper rubbing the bottom of the upper funnel? After hearing it a bit I'd love for this noise to go away. I'll PM you re: the wipers -- thank you so much! Do you believe there's an adjustment with the existing wiper that can make that noise go away? I'm bummed I may have to start taking this grinder apart to adjust things already -- but I knew I was in for an adventure when I bought the M3!!

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Terranova
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#4: Post by Terranova »

You should do the procedure when the grinder is switched on, move the upper funnel when the M3 is running.
Maybe you can fix this yourself, at least to get rid of the noise.

The "roots" of this noise might be a bit more complex if the wiper is touching the lower funnel inside, you can see it when you just take of the funnel and have a look inside. (scratches and marks)
The lower funnel has to be exactly in the centre of the middle plate.
When you release the screws which hold the lower funnel, maybe you have some play to move the lower funnel a bit right and left till the noise is gone. You should move the transmission wheel by hand and listen if there is a noise inside the funnel.
You have to imagine that the wiper is mounted on the shaft, if the wiper is touching the funnel at one point then there is a run out.
On one side of the funnel it is running too close to the inside funnel walls and on the other side the gap between wiper and funnel is too big which means it will be prone to retention.

ds
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#5: Post by ds »

Is this a brand new grinder? If it is why are you not working with manufacturer?

thirdshifter (original poster)
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#6: Post by thirdshifter (original poster) »

Oh I am. I sent Laura an email yesterday morning, but I'm awaiting response (which is fine b/c it's not even business hours out there yet). I figured I would check here first, and won't do anything yet to the grinder until I hear from Versalab first.

But I suspect Terranova is correct. I'm not sure what Versalab will say. I don't like the idea of having to fix the moving or static wiper, as these seem extremely tricky. But I don't really want to send it back to Versalab to fix it either, as that would delay my grinder more weeks. I'll wait to see what I hear from Laura at Versalab.

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AssafL
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#7: Post by AssafL »

Sounds indeed like the wiper. All of Frank's suggestions are right on. Sometimes rotating the bottom funnel a bit causes / relieves the noise.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

thirdshifter (original poster)
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#8: Post by thirdshifter (original poster) »

Thank you for your response! Now here's what I don't understand: So the moving wiper is connected to the bottom burr, which is connected to the shaft and doesn't go up and down. I'm only getting the noise at very fine settings (espresso and presumably finer). Doesn't this suggest that the moving wiper is not touching the bottom funnel?

Frank's initial suggestion that it is "the top of the moving wiper touching the lowest part of the upper funnel" makes sense in this regard. But if that is true, it doesn't seem like there is an easy solution beyond taking apart and re-mounting a moving wiper. No changes to the bottom funnel would fix this, right?-- and indeed would be unnecessary since I hear no rubbing when I'm backed out to coarser settings (beyond 1/4 turn from zero).

I'm almost definitely missing something in the above, so please lemme know what you think. I appreciate the feedback while I await response from VL.

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Terranova
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#9: Post by Terranova »

thirdshifter wrote: So the moving wiper is connected to the bottom burr, which is connected to the shaft and doesn't go up and down. I'm only getting the noise at very fine settings (espresso and presumably finer).
The moving wiper is connected to the shaft that's right and there is no movement (up/down) that is why the wiper has a fix position with the benefit that this is the only existing principle for single dosing which doesn't need RDT or WDT.
thirdshifter wrote: Doesn't this suggest that the moving wiper is not touching the bottom funnel?
Actually yes, You should just take / grind much less than 1mm of the wiper (top end) and you will be fine if you ever end up grinding in that fine range, if not, why don't you just leave it like that and enjoy.
One complete turn of the upper funnel will make a difference of less than 0,8mm / .031" so a quarter turn is very close to nothing .008" (0,2mm)
The noise comes from a very tiny bit as you can see by these numbers.

thirdshifter (original poster)
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#10: Post by thirdshifter (original poster) »

Thanks Terranova -- I heard from Laura at VL who had the same diagnosis as you: the top of the moving wiper barely touching the bottom of the upper funnel at fine settings. She's asked that I take the bottom funnel off and take some more video of the wiper while moving the main pulley by hand. I'll do so tomorrow and share with you folks as well. Thanks again.

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