Radio.YYZ wrote:Did you install it at the inlet pip leaving the boiler or the inlet pipe leading to the e61? I suspect it wouldnt matter where to install it but i suspect to keep the thermal loss at minimal it would be better at the pipe leading to the e61 grouphead.

homeburrero wrote:My current Rocket (Evoluzione V2, 3mm restrictor, with pStat set to ~1 bar) requires a flush of appx 140 ml to get a ~200F shot if the machine has been idle for a long time. (My idle group temp at the EricS thermometer runs about 203F.) Subsequent shots require nothing more than a quick screen cleaning flush even if I spend a couple minutes preparing each next shot.

JayBeck wrote:Pro Tip: Use hot water valve and dispense into a room temperature frothing pitcher. Not only will this help you with getting the correct volume (12 / 20 oz pitcher, just like you'd use for a cap / latte), the stainless steel will suck the heat out quickly. Let it sits for a few seconds then pour into your cup. The 212 degree water will be down to 185ish in no time. I started doing this a few months ago and it works perfectly.

Radio.YYZ wrote:I see what you did there, i have same sentiment towards other engineering marvels from the good folks in italy!.

Good point, i may source out solid washers and buy a whole bunch then i can play with different hole sizes!!!.

Did you install it at the inlet pip leaving the boiler or the inlet pipe leading to the e61? I suspect it wouldnt matter where to install it but i suspect to keep the thermal loss at minimal it would be better at the pipe leading to the e61 grouphead.

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My opinion is biased as to which one to pick, because i went to a store and looked at both machines and used both machines. I found the profitec to be better built and had less flex in the whole body while moving it (you rarely will notice this). I would suggest you find both machines nearby and go look at them and pull lever etc to get a feel for the quality.

In terms of PID vs PSTAT, it would be a close difference in terms of temperature stability. The pid wont have a temp swing delta as big as the pstat machine. But if you think you are not going to do any cooling flushes, that is not going to be the case unless you are only making one drink at a time. If you want to make more than one drink and get to know the machine and how it reacts to cooling and then heating back again. The only reasons the restrictor comes in handy is to minimize the temp swing throughout the shot. The restrictor is not going to make flushing history, especially if you are making more than one drink at a time.

Pros of the rocket are:
- the Rotarary pump.

Pros of the Profitec are:
- (to me) are the build quality and then
- pid is a pro.
- no click clack of the pstat
- stainless steele boiler (less prone to scale - but copper pipes all around)

I am still learning how my machine works... i have used it for months at 1bar max, then 1.1bar now 1.2bar. I am beggining to get a feel for how to get a stable temp and a decent shot.

Just see what was important to you, if i had this choice knowing what i know the rotatory pump is an attraction to me but not enough to jump ship, especially when profitec is now fitted with a restrictor.

HRC-E.B. wrote:So what if your current blend needs a temp of about 203-205 for optimal extraction? Would you be able to get that consistently with that machine, and what would the routine be like? It sounds like your 2nd and 3rd shots, etc. are capped at around 200?

kolu wrote:put it at the inlet pipe exactly where it leaves boiler. there is more thread around on the nut to play with so even with thick washer you have a better chance of achieving a good seal. it is also easier to access.
there is no thermal loss anywhere (makes no sense so I don't actually understand what you mean).

Tanax wrote:Keep in mind the sprung valves for steam and hot water for the Profitec

JayBeck wrote:You bet! Another benefit by regularly pulling hot water from the boiler is that you are getting water out of it which allows it to refill with fresh water. If you're pulling from the group you're getting water from the reservoir. If you never pull hot water from the tap then you're increasing the amount of minerals in the boiler over time since all that would be coming out is steam which by definition is distilled water.

homeburrero wrote:If a roaster recommends pulling at 205 I can try that. On the first shot it's just a shorter flush followed by maybe a 20 second wait. I know it's in the ballpark if my EricS group thermometer shows about a 5 degree hotter than usual temp as the coffee is flowing. For hot subsequent shots I can take longer than usual between shots an do a very minimal cleaning flush.

Even with lighter roasts, In practice I rarely pull hot shots - may be related to my altitude as well as my taste preferences.

Pulling shots from an idle machine with a flush-and-go technique is, to me, the easiest, and I can do that half asleep, in the dark, by the sound of the water when flushing. Pulling subsequent shots is more challenging to me and I tend to rely more on the group thermometer when doing that. If I did it more often it would probably be easier. Part of the problem is that when I am pulling repeated shots they are for guests and I don't get to taste and evaluate every pull.

I do have tricks to get a faster rebound but I think they may be peculiar to my machine and altitude, and are not easily explained. One trick involves letting some steam and hot water out of the group by lifting the lever to the midpoint before the pump engages. I'm not sure I know why it works - one might think it could cause a thermosyphon stall - but in my case it reliably causes my group temp to start to quickly rebound. Another very simple trick that I sometimes used in the past was to blanket the group with a microfiber cloth.