Hi all,
I got a Cimbali junior D from the early 90' (vibe' pump, no pre-infusion), I'm using it for about a year now and don't manage to get a descent cup of espresso!
I read all about it here and in other forums including the excellent posts of Ken Fox and tried the flushing regime advised here also, all with no success of reaching a reasonable cup of coffee (I score an average of 2 according to HB scoring...)
I tried everything, all sorts of grinds and grinders, coffee beans from all around the world, all method of distribution and redistribution, blind PF and much more...
I'm on the verge of replacing it to an E61 DB machine, please help! I do like her...

What is your grinder? Without an $300-1000 espresso grinder there will be no good shots.
Also do you grind 3-10 days after roasting?
Your grinder needs dialed in, meaning you will waste up to 1/2lb of coffee until you get those crema rich
28s shots. To eliminate more variables, you will need to use gram scales and a training graded shot glass to achieve predictable shots.

Your machine is more than competent, I suggest you descale it with citric acid which is abundant in your neck of the woods.

Salaam!

I rebuilt a Cimbali Jr and used it for several months and made very good espresso and capps. These are reliable commercial machines and have been used in countless cafes. The grinder I used was a Lelit(Isomac), well south of $300. Also paired it with a Lido 2 and various box grinders. I found it to be a forgiving machine.

Sounds like you picked it up used. What maintenance was performed after purchase and since? Do you use conditioned water? What is the pressurestat and OPV set at? Yes, the grind does need to be dialed in, but so does the machine...and you. The thing is to only make one change at a time, and go back to square one with each failure.

Good advice offered so far. I also picked up a machine used several years ago. Changing one variable at a time is the only way to diagnose problems. A scale, clean water, a decent grinder and reliably roasted beans are requirements.

A couple of pointers that worked for me. The Junior is very stable in temperature. If pressure is set too high or too low, it is not easy to truly affect the output. Also, it has a smaller headspace for water above the puck. This means overdosing is also difficult to pull off consistently. For this me, the tradional Italian style in coffee, grinding and dosing seemed to yield the best results. Smaller doses with a tighter grind are my typical starting points. Once that works, I adjust grind and dose to get a preferred taste. The flushing regime is really and afterthought for me.

As an aside, when I first had my machine, the channeling was pretty brutal. A lot of that was my technique, some of it was due to the the particulars of the machine and even the lack of maintenance. A dirty screen (which happens) or a dirty or stiff group gasket, cause channeling or overflow sure to ruin your shot.

The single best improvement I made to get much much better shots out of the Cimbali Junior is go with a smaller gicleur to reduce shot flow. It can all be found here. It was night and day when I did the mod.

thanks all for the replies.

cuppajoe wrote:I rebuilt a Cimbali Jr and used it for several months and made very good espresso and capps. These are reliable commercial machines and have been used in countless cafes. The grinder I used was a Lelit(Isomac), well south of $300. Also paired it with a Lido 2 and various box grinders. I found it to be a forgiving machine.

Sounds like you picked it up used. What maintenance was performed after purchase and since? Do you use conditioned water? What is the pressurestat and OPV set at? Yes, the grind does need to be dialed in, but so does the machine...and you. The thing is to only make one change at a time, and go back to square one with each failure.

I actually found it in an attic a few years ago and restored it myself after thoroughly cleaning it and descaling it.
I use a water softener regularly with the water inlet.
I back-flush once a month with coffee cleaning powder.
I service it once a year at a coffee technician which specializes in Cimbali.

the pressure is set to 1bar, what do you mean by pressurestat and OPV setup?

the grinder is an Obel which I restored and modified to be dosserless which produces pretty even and consistent grind.

I don't overdose, I use ~15gr of coffee in the double basket. using the naked PF and don't get channeling.

don't get me wrong, the shot I get are picture perfect (hope to upload some pics soon...)!
we talk about text book shots here: 30gr shot in ~25sec with great crema!
however, the taste is simply bad! and I tried many different kind of beans and roasters(fresh and locally roasted...)

slickrock wrote:The single best improvement I made to get much much better shots out of the Cimbali Junior is go with a smaller gicleur to reduce shot flow. It can all be found here. It was night and day when I did the mod.

I read the post, a few questions:
1. where can I get those jets?
2. where to install them?

The pressurestat is used for adjusting boiler pressure, usually a Sirai on the Junior. A largish gray box with an adjustment screw. As you are at 1 bar, no need to fiddle for now. The OPV is the over pressure valve, which adjusts water pressure to the group. Usually you want to start at about 9 bar. If you have the rotary pump, the adjustment is on the pump. If a vibe pump, there is a separate OPV after the pump with an adjustment screw. It's been awhile and don't remember where it is exactly.

Sounds like you have done everything right so far. Nice machine to find in the attic.

Your bad tasting shots are probably due to under dosing. At 15g in a double basket, the shot would be going blonde super quick at which point you are extracting the bitter components of the coffee.

Try upping the dose (in the appropriate basket) and see how you go.