samuellaw178 wrote:Yeah it's not some game. Denis/Kafatek has stated early on that this is never going to be a large scale production. It's easy for anyone else to see the profit and tempted to scale up or outsource the production /cut cost, and compromise on some of the quality, but he's keeping onto his words...Denis pours his heart into the product and you will get it when you use it.

If you read carefully: I didn't question any of this and I didn't suggest to scale up the production. It's just about the ordering process: "You can order now" (for 45 minutes) vs. waiting list.

I personally think in general (not just for Kafatek) this kind of system isn't ideal. I think it is far more fair and pleasant to give people the ability to place a non refundable deposit at any time. It takes the sense out of it that someone can buy a product without an extra multi month delay coming from missing an email because they were in a meeting, a movie, or any other situation where they didn't receive an email alert in time to place an order. I am sure that there are people that have wanted for a while to buy this grinder but have been beaten to the punch by someone that more recently wanted to buy it and was just lucky enough to see an email alert at the right time. To the folks that say this would lead to a large number of people waiting- the wait for people wanting to buy the product exists whether it is formalised with a deposit or not because many people are in fact waiting to buy the product....... The difference is in the current system people who are lucky to see an email alert can jump the queue vs people who have been patiently waiting. Just saying......

rklem wrote:If you read carefully: I didn't question any of this and I didn't suggest to scale up the production. It's just about the ordering process: "You can order now" (for 45 minutes) vs. waiting list.

Got it,that will make sense.

I have no dog in this fight but ... for a one man shop the time involved to manage either deposits for future production runs and/or e-mail notification lists is extra time consuming which would undoubtedly result in price increases to cover.

Perspective from my own experience in a different vertical market.

There isn't a perfect solution ...

Simon345 wrote:I am sure that there are people that have wanted for a while to buy this grinder but have been beaten to the punch by someone that more recently wanted to buy it and was just lucky enough to see an email alert at the right time.

Ive been subscribed to the preorder mailing list for well over a year and haven't been fast enough to snag a conical yet. I came close once where it was in stock at the time but by the time I grabbed my wallet they sold out.

Simon345 wrote:To the folks that say this would lead to a large number of people waiting- the wait for people wanting to buy the product exists whether it is formalised with a deposit or not because many people are in fact waiting to buy the product

I don't know how many of these things Kafatek plans to build, but I can see how the current system benefits them. They (he? is this one guy?) allocate some time to building machines based on whatever else is going on, decide how many machines can be built in that time and thus when they'll be done, then open pre-orders for just that many. It avoids the queue dictating time spent building, the need to update lead time, and complaints from deposit makers if the lead time slips.

I'm pretty shocked these things sold out, though I have no idea how many were on offer. But it amazes me there is enough demand for a $2500 single dose grinder to sell out any reasonable number in such a short time.

I had a chance to pick up a used conical, but I passed on it due to kitchen cabinet height. I am gunning for a flat. I keep missing the cut off too. Frustrating, but these are Denis' rules. I get it, and I hopefully one day will time it right.

I also have been in the unfortunate situation where I was unable to order due to work for the last two. One of the times I'll make it!

I just think that we are fortunate that Denis hasn't raised the price to bring the demand into alignment with the supply. I also appreciate that he isn't willing to take money for more orders than he can promise to fulfill in a reasonably predictable manner.

Maybe Denis should give those people who have been on the waiting list the longest, but keep on missing out for one reason or the other, top priority on the next order.