Quest M3 - late first crack

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
Stromberg
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Joined: 9 years ago

#1: Post by Stromberg »

Hi everyone,

Having just roasted another three batches on my Quest, I have a question: Often I read that people reach first crack on the Quest before the 10 minute mark. I don't think I have ever managed that; I usually reach 1st crack between 11 and 12 minutes.

I charge the roaster to about 210 C (410 F) BT, fill in 220g of beans, and then just let it ride at about 850 - 900 W. Along the way I gradually increase the fan speed. First crack usually starts between 198 C and 204 C on my temperature logger (388 F to 399 F), and, like I said, after the 10 minute mark.

My ceiling is 240 C (464 F) MET, because after that the beans start to scorch uncotrollably. So after I hit that MET temperature and increase fan speed to maximum (or 0, i tried both), there is nothing more I can do to increase the roasting speed. So I really don't understand how so many people hit the first crack way before the 10 minute mark.

I cannot show you a curve since I currently don't have the equipment.

I'm at a loss as to what to do to increase the roasting speed without scorching the beans. Can you give me some advise as to what I need to change to get to first crack earlier (and yes, I do want to have a rather light, accidic roast).
Thank you very much!

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SlowRain
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#2: Post by SlowRain »

Reduce your batch size to 180g or 150g.

Nunas
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#3: Post by Nunas »

I agree with SlowRain. When learning to use a Quest you need to start with small batches. As you get used to the roaster you can gradually increase batch size. The way I did it was to use the inbuilt Artisan profile tool and draw an ideal profile. I set it up as a background profile for each roast. Then I just kept riding the controls (heat & fan) to achieve the closest BT curve to that profile. Once you can do it nearly every time, increase batch size somewhat and try to hit the profile again. It took me quite a while, but I can routinely roast batches as large as 330 grams (a third of a #2 bag) if I'm attentive. I once successfully roasted a 400 gram batch, but that is really stretching it; it's too much for the little Quest. Usually, I roast 250 gram batches, now that I know the roaster well. Also, I found that I eventually no longer needed Artisan to do it...I guess its a kind of Zen thing :lol: .

Stromberg (original poster)
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Joined: 9 years ago

#4: Post by Stromberg (original poster) »

Okay, thank you, I will try roasting smaller batch sizes.

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EddyQ
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#5: Post by EddyQ »

You say you charge at 410F. But is the drum really stabilized at that temp? I found it takes 10's of minutes to really settle in on a stable temp.
Once there, you can cut the heat to 200-300W and the temps will flat-line if there is zero airflow (like leaving the bean chute open). At that point, you have a stable drum temp.

Next, you need to realize the Quest electric heating element is slow. It takes about 2-3 minutes for anything to happen after a change of heat. So, if I want a fast roast, I increase heat a lot at charge or before charging beans (lot = 1100W). The turning point with my probes is about 1 minute and by a little after the heat of the drum is exhausted, but if you apply enough heat early enough it pours on producing a fast ramp.

Now you know how to get the ramp fast, you need to quickly cut the heat to prevent too high MET. I cut heat before 300F with a fast roast. Around then I also increase the fan a bit. The rest is up to you to learn. . .

BTW, I recently pushed my Quest on 150gms of beans and it was complete in 5min 40sec ending 40 seconds past FCs. And my charge temp was 400F. This was with a high altitude African bean that apparently could take the heat.
LMWDP #671

Stromberg (original poster)
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#6: Post by Stromberg (original poster) »

Thank you Eddy! I let the heat stabilize for about 10 minutes before the first roast, after that for maybe 5 minutes between roasts. I will try what you said and apply more power early on, with a smaller batch size.

When you say "cut heat", do you mean to literally turn the heat all the way down, or do you maintain some power? I would assume that you still need at least 400 - 500 W to not stall the roast?

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EddyQ
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#7: Post by EddyQ »

Stromberg wrote:When you say "cut heat", do you mean to literally turn the heat all the way down, or do you maintain some power? I would assume that you still need at least 400 - 500 W to not stall the roast?
The phrase "cut the heat" is meant to reduce heat. During warmup, I reduce heat to 200W to 300W for 5 or more minutes, with no fan, to ensure the BT temps are not changing before I charge with beans.

During the roasts, after around 300F, I reduce the heat to around 800W (you need to determine your own value) to prevent running into FC too quickly.
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dale_cooper
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#8: Post by dale_cooper »

Interesting thread....

Your beans scorch at higher MET's? What do they look like? Batch size for me is 150-180, charge at 370-390 BT. My MET is typically 510-540 (comes down as I'm approaching and going through FC) and I don't have scorching. I cut heat at charge (to 5a or less), shortly before TP I crank the heat. I then use high fan and high heat (11a up until dry). I can get the Bt to react fairly quickly after making power changes....

I typically hit dry (308 degrees at 5:00 - 6:00). First crack at 8:30 - 9:00.

I didn't have enough energy going into first crack without using high heat..... My BT would drop ALOT before dry end and I could never recover unless I increased power and broke RAO's rule of descending RoR (oh no, a golden rule broken!). Now I have sufficient energy the entire roast and can go into it at 15-20F/min. Who knows, my brain and palate both love using the quest this way. If I wasn't moving this week (and my life being scattered), I really would've enjoyed submitting a bag to the Focus on the Roast judging (october 21st) and hearing Joe and Rob Hoos give their opinions on my beans :)

sidenote - I have a quest m3s drum which I think does make things a bit different.

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EddyQ
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#9: Post by EddyQ »

Stromberg wrote: I would assume that you still need at least 400 - 500 W to not stall the roast?
Yes, I've found I need at least 500W when approaching FC and beyond. But I don't think you would want to keep heat at 1100W much past end of drying phase or you will speed right through development and likely get tipping and scorching.
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EddyQ
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#10: Post by EddyQ »

dale_cooper wrote:Interesting thread....

Your beans scorch at higher MET's? What do they look like? Batch size for me is 150-180, charge at 370-390 BT. My MET is typically 510-540 (comes down as I'm approaching and going through FC) and I don't have scorching. I cut heat at charge (to 5a or less), shortly before TP I crank the heat. I then use high fan and high heat (11a up until dry). I can get the Bt to react fairly quickly after making power changes....

I typically hit dry (308 degrees at 5:00 - 6:00). First crack at 8:30 - 9:00.
Yup, there sure are other ways to produce the desired ramp. I have had many fine roasts by cranking heat at TP. :D
LMWDP #671

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