Machine I use is ECM Classika PID.

I heard that flat burrs need to be adjusted more often than conical. Does it mean I have to possibly waste a couple of shots everytime until I dial in? I also see that the Flat costs $500 more.

Do they differ in taste in the cup? I read that conical and Flat slightly emphasize different taste notes.

Currently own Helor 101. Occasionally I also do moka pot and other coffees.

And what would be other top of the line grinders for low volume home use? I'm on the Pharos waiting list.. Not holding my breath.

It really depends on a number of things in my humble opinion. Do you switch coffees often? What kind of roast do you like? And then it really boils down to what kind of tastes you want emphasised in the cup, mouthfeel, etc. You definitely read correctly, as far as a difference between flat and conical. As far as other grinders that would compete, depends on a couple things, space and does retention matter? I would assume retention would matter (I hate wasting coffee). I don't want to babble here so I will stop there for now.

I have both Monolith Conical and Monolith Flat. They're both very stable in terms of grind size, I haven't found very much need to adjust my grind on the Flat (I tend to up dose as a roast gets older). The Flat is an extremely stable grinder from this perspective. I don't "waste" many shots.

Given the number of people with both Monoliths I can't fathom why there's been no response to the substance of the OP's post. Seems these people either think the question isn't a good or bona fide one; or it is answerable or too tendentious to touch. In either case, it might be worth saying so.

From what people are saying I'm sold on the Conical Monolith as my next purchase. Am I going to experience a clear difference/improvement from Helor 101? So far I find Helor's consistency reasonable, thou it doesn't deliver totally same shot after shot thou I control every other aspect exactly from shot to shot. Very happy with the grinder thou overall.

In a related topic, I also wonder how the general taste profile of just straight espresso shots differs between e61 and machines like Mini-Vivaldi or say the GS3.

chopinhauer wrote:Given the number of people with both Monoliths I can't fathom why there's been no response to the substance of the OP's post. Seems these people either think the question isn't a good or bona fide one; or it is answerable or too tendentious to touch. In either case, it might be worth saying so.

It's likely because the OP answered his own questions.

Good observation, but for the fact that the 'answer' came after my post. Also a good example of the real subtext and motivation behind my post.

Or it's likely the conical vs flat debate has been done many times. That's ultimately what this is as there are many posts that compare workflow of both.

That, and there hasn't been any extensive blind testing against each other.

I have both and use them side by side all the time. Difference is subtle, but I have noticed a trend for my taste. For straight shots and most coffees I prefer Flat, I feel like flavors are just touch more approachable, maybe mellower. Caramels and acidity is wonderful. If I had to had one I would choose Flat. Glad I don't have to

As far as adjustment goes I adjust mine very infrequently since burrs have gotten broken in. I don't feel its any more harder on preparation than conical either.

This post mirrors my own experience.

The reason I didn't respond on this aspect of the chain was because I think it's largely a matter of taste preference which, of course, is totally individual. Work flow is, on the other hand, an objective thing that I can comment on. With that disclaimer I'll now try to describe my taste preferences between the two.

With regard to mouth feel, using the same coffee and identical extraction brew ratio and time, the conical produces thicker yet less syrupy shots. When I say thicker I mean in that chunky mouth feel way, and when I say syrupy I'm talking about the persistence of the mouth feel. I'm still surprised that the flat produces more syrupy shots. My preference in terms of that combination of mouth feels is for the flat.

In terms of flavours I get more chocolate, nuts, and caramel from the conical and I get more berries and ripe citrus from the flat (absolutely still get mellow caramels as well). My preference in terms of flavour is for the flat as well.

So overall I have a slight preference for the flat over the conical, but my wife prefers the results from the conical (she drinks large flat whites so there is plenty of milk to confound the story). All of my friends who drink straight espresso prefer the flat. I'm guessing that if you asked me what my preference between the two was about five years ago, I might well have said the conical given I was chasing nuts and caramels from my espresso at that time. If you gave me blind shots from the two with coffees I hadn't recently tried I'm entirely unsure that I'd be able to pick the difference. And if you were to just randomly take one of the grinders away from me I'd be entirely happy using the one that stayed. Echoing broad support on this forum, I think that both machines are wondrous and that the marginal differences are small but, I believe, noticeable when shots are tasted side by side.