justneel wrote:What would be the difference between an e61 double boiler vs a gs/3 or linea mini in the cup given the same grinder, water, etc?

The difference would be the barista who is pulling the shot.

There is no "Magic Espresso Machine." If you have a quality grinder, fresh quality beans, good water, clean and well maintained equipment, you should be able to produce a quality cup of espresso with any decent espresso machine. That is of course presuming you have taken the time to learn how to properly use your equipment so it will be able to produce the best it can deliver.

A bottomless portafilter and VST baskets will show you up if you're not properly distributing and tamping your dose. No matter how expensive your espresso machine may be, coffee can spurt everywhere if you haven't done a proper job of prepping before pulling the shot.

In short, if you haven't developed a good grasp of the basics, even a $10,000 espresso machine won't produce a good cup of espresso for you.

bluediesel77 wrote:I have an R58 plumbed in and out with a BWT bestmax filter setup and a flow meter so I know when to change out filters. There is also the Mavea which is also a good choice if you plan on plumbing it in to your home.

I really enjoy my R58 and would buy it again if I had too. Your grinder will have a greater effect in the cup than which e61 DB machine you choose.

Have u done some reasearch on the other models in that range and still would buy it again? also does yours have a watery pour? or is like honey/syrup creamy pour

There really isn't a big difference between E61 machines in the R58 price range. They're all capable of producing excellent shots when equipped with a good grinder. Like it has been said many times on this and other coffee forums, the grinder makes the big difference (and the barista of course).

If the pour is watery or thick it's up to the barista, not the machine.

Oddaball wrote:Hello!

Im about to buy a new machine, im thinking about the rocket r58 V2 2017 mod. Is there any other better machines in terms of cup quality in this price range? As for the grinder, i have an mazzer major.

Does the rocket need some special filter in the water or something else to work, or is it good to go right out of the box?
Also can i descale it myself or does it have to be sent in?

Really appreciate the info i get! thanks!

The R58 was on my wishlist for quite a while, until the Evoluzione R-G/M was released 2.5 months ago. Where I live, it's just next to impossible for an individual consumer to acquire a machine like that near/around its release date (wait time was about 12 weeks in the US). My heart was set on the double boiler system for so long but this new machine appealed to me for a number of reasons, so I placed the order and decided to wait.

I picked it up last night, and man let me tell you... it's lovely ! It comes in 2 versions: Giotto R and Mozzafiato R. I learned that the latter meant "heaven" The only difference is in the aesthetics: the Giotto's looks trapezoidal whereas the Mozzafiato is a cube. Both use a heat exchanger, and a rotary pump (hence the "R" on the steam knob). It also is the first Rocket to get a built in PID with adjustable grouphead temps, as well as beautiful black gauges. If you have the patience to wait for one, consider getting it.

If you do buy a Rocket, please do not use descaling solution. It is designed in such a way that makes it very difficult to completely expel the solution back out of the system. I started using bottled water (for now) because tap water is much harder in my area. I am waiting for my Rocket filters to arrive from Milano (they've been on backorder forever )

If you end up getting the R58, be very careful how you move it around. During a presentation at their booth last year, I learned how fragile some internal components can be. This and the fact that it is a frickin heavy machine.

Oddaball wrote:Have u done some reasearch on the other models in that range and still would buy it again? also does yours have a watery pour? or is like honey/syrup creamy pour

I had multiple e61 DB machines I was looking at. The R58 came on sale at a really low price so I snatched one. Was also looking at the Pro 700 but would have cost another $700 CDN to get it. I chose to spend the extra on a better grinder and accesories. The R58 is a really good looking machine and I actually preferred to have no electronics visible as my kitchen has a traditional theme. So I'm one of the minority that liked the detachable pid remote. As for steaming performance I can pump out lattes one after another without too much loss of pressure as I only do 6oz at a time and the machine is ready for the next one before I am. Just got my technique down recently and am getting better at latte art.

I only looked at DB machines as I didn't want to temp surf anymore.

Shots on any machine are controlled by the user not the machine. Took me a few weeks with a bottomless and VST baskets to get amazing looking shots that tasted really good. And it's still a work in progress learning the different types of beans and taste profiles, but well worth it. If there was one thing I would do differently is to spend the money on a single dose grinder such as a monolith. Beans ain't cheap and the cost of purging is getting expensive.

I'm nowhere near ready to dive into pressure profiling and not even sure I would want to. I don't have a refined enough pallette to distinguish all the flavors and textures of espresso. Which is also why I never looked at the R60, GS3, Vesuvius and others as possible machines.

But to answer your question yes I would buy it again. My shots now are syrupy with lots of crema. My family loves having a home setup to make delicious drinks.

Mario LB wrote:I picked it up last night, and man let me tell you... it's lovely ! It comes in 2 versions: Giotto R and Mozzafiato R. I learned that the latter meant "heaven" The only difference is in the aesthetics: the Giotto's looks trapezoidal whereas the Mozzafiato is a cube. Both use a heat exchanger, and a rotary pump (hence the "R" on the steam knob). It also is the first Rocket to get a built in PID with adjustable grouphead temps, as well as beautiful black gauges. If you have the patience to wait for one, consider getting it.

Congratulations on your lovely new machine, Mario. I'm sure you will be enjoying it for many years.

By the way, the R on the steam knob is not to indicate that the machine has a rotary pump, the R is for Rocket. You will find the R on the steam knob of the V machines as well.

bluediesel77 wrote:I had multiple e61 DB machines I was looking at. The R58 came on sale at a really low price so I snatched one. Was also looking at the Pro 700 but would have cost another $700 CDN to get it. I chose to spend the extra on a better grinder.

I only looked at DB machines as I didn't want to temp surf anymore.

Shots on any machine are controlled by the user not the machine. Took me a few weeks with a bottomless and VST baskets to get amazing looking shots that tasted really good. And it's still a work in progress learning the different types of beans and taste profiles, but well worth it. If there was one thing I would do differently is to spend the money on a single dose grinder such as a monolith. Beans ain't cheap and the cost of purging is getting expensive.

The R58 is a fine machine. That bottomless portafilter, especially with the VST baskets, is a good teacher. It sure wastes no time letting you know how you're doing with your distribution and tamping.

Anyone know the difference between the 2017 and the 2016 model? I can get a 2016 model right now, but the 2017 models its a month to get them restocked. Ive read somehting about adjustable feet, and i can see difference in picture. Is it just the feet, and is 2017 model any higher? height is badass

Yeah the R58/R60 new versions the only change is the adjustable feeties. I don't know if they can go higher, people usually complain that they can't get the machine any >lower< in my experience, so I'd bet they start at the "normal" height and can go down, but I don't know for sure.