Roasting Education - Page 2

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.
User avatar
TomC
Team HB
Posts: 10534
Joined: 13 years ago

#11: Post by TomC »

Moxiechef wrote:I guess I was referring to brewing an espresso roast to analyze the quality of the roast before resting it enough to pull it for espresso. Versus cupping to analyze the quality of a green coffee.

It could/should clue one in on what the coffees potential is, but the only proof is in the pudding, meaning you'd have to pull shots on it. Anyone who thinks espresso is just concentrated coffee should dilute a shot into far lungo Americano strength and compare to it brewed without pressure to check themselves.
Join us and support Artisan Roasting Software=https://artisan-scope.org/donate/

User avatar
EddyQ
Posts: 1035
Joined: 8 years ago

#12: Post by EddyQ »

Moxiechef wrote:I guess I was referring to brewing an espresso roast to analyze the quality of the roast before resting it enough to pull it for espresso. Versus cupping to analyze the quality of a green coffee.
I'm now on roast #6 with my heat gun set up. All the roasts to date are far from perfect, but later ones do seem to follow the modulation discussed in Rob Hoos book. However, I never cupped any of my roasts until the last few. Turns out, my La Pavoni espressos with each roast taste pretty good. But I took roast #5 to work and brewed a cup with my Bialletti moka pot. Wow was it awful. I later brewed a few cups according to the SCAA and found those cups were not that good either. But I am really not that experienced with SCAA methods of cupping and expected tastes.

I think my roasts are suffering from some ashyness. The La Pavoni tends to pull rather sweet shots, so perhaps this bad taste is getting cut short of being extracted. But the other two brew methods, this not so good ashy taste comes out and overpowers the rest of the extraction. So I have some work to do with my roasts and I have some things to try. But I am now very interested in proper cupping for best taste independent of brew method.
LMWDP #671

Advertisement
Moxiechef
Supporter ♡
Posts: 579
Joined: 9 years ago

#13: Post by Moxiechef »

TomC wrote:It could/should clue one in on what the coffees potential is, but the only proof is in the pudding, meaning you'd have to pull shots on it. Anyone who thinks espresso is just concentrated coffee should dilute a shot into far lungo Americano strength and compare to it brewed without pressure to check themselves.
I agree with you. It's just a pain to wait 4 to 6 days to really gauge a roast, it'd just be nice to roast, wait an hour, taste, alter the roast and repeat. Oh well.

EddyQ wrote:I'm now on roast #6 with my heat gun set up. All the roasts to date are far from perfect, but later ones do seem to follow the modulation discussed in Rob Hoos book. However, I never cupped any of my roasts until the last few. Turns out, my La Pavoni espressos with each roast taste pretty good. But I took roast #5 to work and brewed a cup with my Bialletti moka pot. Wow was it awful. I later brewed a few cups according to the SCAA and found those cups were not that good either. But I am really not that experienced with SCAA methods of cupping and expected tastes.

I think my roasts are suffering from some ashyness. The La Pavoni tends to pull rather sweet shots, so perhaps this bad taste is getting cut short of being extracted. But the other two brew methods, this not so good ashy taste comes out and overpowers the rest of the extraction. So I have some work to do with my roasts and I have some things to try. But I am now very interested in proper cupping for best taste independent of brew method.
Since I'm trying for espresso, I've been working on Pulped Natural Brazils and they are a tough bunch to crack without getting ashy and such from the interior charring of the silver skin. I've gotten a lot better and lowering the temp on the espresso machine has helped as well.

User avatar
TomC
Team HB
Posts: 10534
Joined: 13 years ago

#14: Post by TomC »

Moxiechef wrote:I agree with you. It's just a pain to wait 4 to 6 days to really gauge a roast, it'd just be nice to roast, wait an hour, taste, alter the roast and repeat. Oh well.

Grind your sample and let it rest 20 minutes. Then proceed with whatever method, cupping, brewing ( I hate cupping).
Join us and support Artisan Roasting Software=https://artisan-scope.org/donate/

Lydbox
Posts: 5
Joined: 7 years ago

#15: Post by Lydbox »

TomC wrote:Coffee roasting "education" is best self-learned. It's not what we like to hear, but it's true. Books like Rao's and Rob Hoos' are good for some background, but the actual learning comes from diligent practice, tasting and analysis, and repeat.

There's plenty of archived discussions and lessons right here on HB. There's also a great resource on how to roast coffee from the Mill City folks. If you haven't been following their Youtube presentations, you should.
I'm looking for one seminal text and it is between Roos or Rao ...the Rao book is from 2014, so it gives me pause , though, one could argue that the basic theory of roasting hasn't changed, which would you advise for a beginner roaster...I also saw there was one from Roast Magazine for $120, way out of my budget, but are there others you would recommend?

And I do wish Mill City would create an online text book, their videos are AWESOME!

boiler1
Posts: 15
Joined: 7 years ago

#16: Post by boiler1 replying to Lydbox »

I have the Rao and Hoos books, but I think I have learned a lot more about how to roast from the Mill City videos and going back through the Roast & Learn threads here at HB. I am nowhere near an expert, but I found taking notes from the videos and treating them as my lecture and then the Roast & Learn threads were a ton of case studies/examples, giving me a whole course on roasting. That's not to take anything away from those books. They help with the "why", but left me wondering on the "how". I found the mill city/R&L combination a bit more helpful (but I always learned better from examples/applications). I will say Rao's book is a very good overview of most aspects of roasting, so I don't mean to diminish its place, just that I found the other two more useful.

User avatar
Boldjava
Posts: 2765
Joined: 16 years ago

#17: Post by Boldjava »

boiler1 wrote:II'm looking for one seminal text and it is between hoos or Rao ...the Rao book is from 2014, so it gives me pause ...
People have been roasting coffee for hundreds of years. I wouldn't concern myself with 3 years of 'dated' theory.

I have both books. I have read Rao's 3x's; Hoos' once. In my mind, Rao's is definitely the place to start. Great theory, much more introductory. Once you have it down solidly, build on it with Hoos' book which is much more detailed. I believe it is much too easy to get lost in Hoos' book with the level of detail and the hair splitting on seconds of roast and the differences in perceived cup, etc. Stick with Rao to begin.

Build on it with Mill City's YouTube's.
-----
LMWDP #339

Advertisement
markmark1
Posts: 234
Joined: 9 years ago

#18: Post by markmark1 replying to Boldjava »

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Post Reply