bluesman wrote:He was indeed talking about pour height - but he said 1 cm, not 1 inch:

Good catch. 1 cm sounds exactly right, to me.

Jack

bluesman wrote:He was indeed talking about pour height - but he said 1 cm, not 1 inch:

Ah I thought he was talking about this part where he mentioned an inch twice:

jpan127 wrote: Start the wand fully submerged about an inch, raise up to find the spot where it's making the TCHH noise. (This may take me 5 seconds to find it) I probably stay at this for 10-20 seconds until it starts getting pretty warm. Then I submerge it an inch and keep it swirling for another 10-20 seconds until it gets almost hot.

Curious as to why he switches from Inches to metric in the same post, but regardless of which system of measurment you want to use his measurements seem WAY off. In my experience an inch is way too deep to get good microfoam with this particular steam wand/boiler combo, and submerging it an additional inch once it heats up would be counter productive. Maybe he really meant a centimeter here in which case he's closer, but still too deep. The Nut end of the tip is about a centimeter, and it probably should not be fully submerged.

randomorbit wrote:In my experience an inch is way too deep to get good microfoam with this particular steam wand/boiler combo

But that's not what he said. He describes the proper process -

jpan127 wrote:Start the wand fully submerged about an inch, raise up to find the spot where it's making the TCHH noise.

Whether or not he's actually doing it properly is another question - but he's not trying to foam with the tip an inch below the surface.

bluesman wrote:But that's not what he said. He describes the proper process -


Whether or not he's actually doing it properly is another question - but he's not trying to foam with the tip an inch below the surface.

Except with this particular hardware combo, which I have, I find the wand NEVER needs to go an inch beneath the surface, not even after the initial pulling. Initially I was submerging it once the milk warmed, because that's how I'd seen the process described, but with practice I've found the best foam on my machine is achieved when the wand is always kept near the surface, and towards the end once the milk is nearly reached full temperature, the surface will start to roll very nicely. I'll adjust the depth and angle to get the nicest roll, and stop it as the texture gets to the right place. That delicate spot where microfoam is about to be formed will be ruined if you plunge the wand.

This is very much a case of learning to work with a particular piece of hardware. I've also steamed milk on the Commercial La Spaz at the cafe where I work (not as a Barista, but I do fill in when they are slammed) and the difference is like night and day. If I tried to steam milk on that the way I do at home, all the milk would wind up in my face, because the steam pressure is WAY stronger. Ultimately you're looking for the same roll, but the way you get it with regards to depth is WAY different.

randomorbit wrote:Except with this particular hardware combo, which I have, I find the wand NEVER needs to go an inch beneath the surface, not even after the initial pulling.

I normally wouldn't beat this horse any more, but beginners could get the wrong idea if left with your statement above. The OP (like I and many others) submerges the tip about an inch when he first places it into the cold milk, before he opens the steam valve. It may be 1/2" or 1 1/4" - it doesn't matter, as long as the tip holes are far enough below the surface to avoid blowing big bubbles (or, worse, blowing the milk all over you and your machine). He then opens the steam valve, then lowers the pitcher / raises the tip until properly positioned for foaming as evidenced by the sound. I have no idea if he's actually doing all this correctly, but he's certainly describing the proper process. Opening the steam valve with the tip an inch below the surface is absolutely fine, as long as it's immediately repositioned for stretching before the milk gets too hot.

Trying to place the tip at the proper depth for foaming before you open the steam valve is just a recipe for disaster, regardless of the equipment being used.

bluesman wrote:I normally wouldn't beat this horse any more, but beginners could get the wrong idea if left with your statement above. The OP (like I and many others) submerges the tip about an inch when he first places it into the cold milk, before he opens the steam valve. It may be 1/2" or 1 1/4" - it doesn't matter, as long as the tip holes are far enough below the surface to avoid blowing big bubbles (or, worse, blowing the milk all over you and your machine). He then opens the steam valve, then lowers the pitcher / raises the tip until properly positioned for foaming as evidenced by the sound. I have no idea if he's actually doing all this correctly, but he's certainly describing the proper process. Opening the steam valve with the tip an inch below the surface is absolutely fine, as long as it's immediately repositioned for stretching before the milk gets too hot.

Trying to place the tip at the proper depth for foaming before you open the steam valve is just a recipe for disaster, regardless of the equipment being used.

And that's not the part I'm objecting to. It's the part where he submerges it an inch again after the milk is warmed.

jpan127 wrote:I probably stay at this for 10-20 seconds until it starts getting pretty warm. Then I submerge it an inch and keep it swirling for another 10-20 seconds until it gets almost hot.

While usually the right idea, that doesn't work on this machine, and the reason I'm beating this horse is because I use this machine every day, so I have a pretty good idea about what's needed to get good foam from it. I've tried doing exactly what he's describing, and found I could not get good microfoam that way. With this machine/wand combo, if you submerge the wand an inch after the milk has warmed you won't get the roll you're looking for. Yes, you need to start with the tip deep enough to avoid blow back, but then bring it close to the surface, and KEEP IT THERE until the end, unless you are specifically trying to heat the milk without foaming it. I won't try to give specific measurements, because it's so much about sound, and the way the milk is moving. I couldn't tell you the specific measurements if I tried, and when I try to think in terms of specific depths I screw it all up. So I can't say if it's 6mm, or a quarter inch, or a half an inch or a centimeter beneath the surface, but I will say it's not an inch.

@random|bit

Hi thanks, ok I'll give that method a try today when i make my afternoon latte.

Hahaha do people usually not use centimeters and inches together? I always thought of them as a combo package since they're on opposite sides of a normal ruler. Better than saying half inch? Or maybe not.

jpan127 wrote:@random|bit

Hi thanks, ok I'll give that method a try today when i make my afternoon latte.

Good luck, and keep at it. This is really hard to describe, and even harder to film (unless you have 3 hands) but keep at it, and you'll develop the feel. If you want to practice without wasting milk, you can try water and dish soap. That way you can get a feel for the depth, and angle where the roll happens.

@randomorbit

Thanks, I got a new pitcher 12 oz, probably fill it up with 6-8 oz of milk. I also got a thermometer but it seems to rise too slow so I'm not sure at what reading I should stop at yet. But it did tell me that I was probably underheating my milk before since when the milk is too hot to touch, for me, it was probably around 120-130 degrees. Maybe I'm just sensitive...

It made foam a lot better, but heated much much faster, and I went from no foam to cappuccino foam. I got a nice huge blob of thick globby foam to just kind of sprawl out over the top of the coffee.

I also read on another thread here some guy did this: pull shot, turn steam on, wait 10 seconds, purge 2 seconds, wait 10 seconds, start steaming. I've been doing this in hopes that it would give me more steam. Maybe it has maybe it hasn't, not really sure.

Will try to incorporate less air tomorrow.

This is actually good. It means you have some range to work with. Now you need to stop stretching (aerating) sooner, and submerge the tip to continue the vertical roll and heating. Try a lot sooner, then see how it goes. If it's too early, you can split the difference accordingly.