Brewing consistency? (ratio, weight, and water questions)
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CathyWeeks
- Posts: 321
- Joined: 8 years ago
Ok... someone gave me some unsolicited (though certainly not unwelcome 
) advice that I'd achieve a more consistent cup if I weighed everything.
I typically use 5 tbsp of coffee to 26 ounces of water when I brew (ratio is roughly 1 tbsp whole beans : 5 oz water). I know from experience that 5 tbsp of beans might weigh anywhere from 35 to as much as 50 grams.
I'm curious if switching to using a specific weight of beans will make enough of an improvement that it will matter to someone like me? (By "someone like me" I just mean that I can rarely pick up the flavor notes that are listed on the package.)
And how much tinkering do you do when using weights? Do you have a ratio of beans to water that just works most of the time?
And, due to some not great coffee that I had ordered, I dusted off my 70/30 water solutions and switched to that. It made a bad coffee pretty good, but I'm also noting that ALL my coffees are tasting rather ... tangy when I use it. How do I adjust the ratio to bring the tang back down? Add more coffee?
) advice that I'd achieve a more consistent cup if I weighed everything.I typically use 5 tbsp of coffee to 26 ounces of water when I brew (ratio is roughly 1 tbsp whole beans : 5 oz water). I know from experience that 5 tbsp of beans might weigh anywhere from 35 to as much as 50 grams.
I'm curious if switching to using a specific weight of beans will make enough of an improvement that it will matter to someone like me? (By "someone like me" I just mean that I can rarely pick up the flavor notes that are listed on the package.)
And how much tinkering do you do when using weights? Do you have a ratio of beans to water that just works most of the time?
And, due to some not great coffee that I had ordered, I dusted off my 70/30 water solutions and switched to that. It made a bad coffee pretty good, but I'm also noting that ALL my coffees are tasting rather ... tangy when I use it. How do I adjust the ratio to bring the tang back down? Add more coffee?
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mike guy
- Posts: 248
- Joined: 8 years ago
Read these:
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-reci ... ing-yield/
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-time/
Then watch this:
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-reci ... -together/
The first issue you are going to run into is trying to dose by volume. Only dose by weight and measure yield by weight.
A lot specialty beans will come with recommended recipes already done for you. When I start with a bean that doesn't have a recommendation, I generally start around 18-19 grams of coffee and a 32-35g yield. I'll adjust using the techniques listed above to find a sweet spot.
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-reci ... ing-yield/
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-time/
Then watch this:
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-reci ... -together/
The first issue you are going to run into is trying to dose by volume. Only dose by weight and measure yield by weight.
A lot specialty beans will come with recommended recipes already done for you. When I start with a bean that doesn't have a recommendation, I generally start around 18-19 grams of coffee and a 32-35g yield. I'll adjust using the techniques listed above to find a sweet spot.
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[creative nickname]
- Posts: 1832
- Joined: 11 years ago
1. The immediate benefit of switching to a consistent dose (measured by mass) is that your results will be more consistent from brew to brew. The secondary benefit of this will be that, with more consistent results, you can make smaller tweaks to your brewing recipes based on taste and thereby improve the balance of your cups. So long as you are varying dose so much, you will be seeing swings not only in the strength of your coffee but also in its level of extraction, even if you hold every other variable constant.
2. I typically use a 15:1 ratio of water to coffee, with both measured in grams. This is a good starting point, but of course you should feel free to adjust it to suit your own palate.
3. "Picking up the flavor notes listed on the package" need not be the goal; flavor description is impressionistic and different brew methods might empahsize different notes in a coffee. Instead, just focus on getting things balanced enough that neither the bitterness nor the acidity are shouting at you, allowing you to perceive the subtler details of the coffee. With time and attention, you'll start to notice more and more details in your cups, which should increase your enjoyment of coffee even if you never agree with your roaster that a particular coffee has notes that remind you of peach and butterscotch.
4. "Tangy" sounds like you are getting more acidity than you prefer. You can up the amount of bicarbonate that you add to your water, which will soften the perceived acidity, or else just try to extract more to compensate. Any combination of the following will help you extract more out of your coffee and reduce perceived sourness: Hotter water, finer grinds, longer contact time, increased agitation, or reduced brew ratio.
2. I typically use a 15:1 ratio of water to coffee, with both measured in grams. This is a good starting point, but of course you should feel free to adjust it to suit your own palate.
3. "Picking up the flavor notes listed on the package" need not be the goal; flavor description is impressionistic and different brew methods might empahsize different notes in a coffee. Instead, just focus on getting things balanced enough that neither the bitterness nor the acidity are shouting at you, allowing you to perceive the subtler details of the coffee. With time and attention, you'll start to notice more and more details in your cups, which should increase your enjoyment of coffee even if you never agree with your roaster that a particular coffee has notes that remind you of peach and butterscotch.
4. "Tangy" sounds like you are getting more acidity than you prefer. You can up the amount of bicarbonate that you add to your water, which will soften the perceived acidity, or else just try to extract more to compensate. Any combination of the following will help you extract more out of your coffee and reduce perceived sourness: Hotter water, finer grinds, longer contact time, increased agitation, or reduced brew ratio.
LMWDP #435
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CathyWeeks (original poster)
- Posts: 321
- Joined: 8 years ago
The articles and video are all for espresso - does that matter (given that I only brew coffee, and not espresso)?mike guy wrote:Read these:
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-reci ... ing-yield/
https://baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-time/
I.e. - are the concepts the same for coffee as well as espresso?
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baldheadracing
- Team HB
- Posts: 6289
- Joined: 9 years ago
Weighing is arguably more important for brewing as the brew ratio is much higher than espresso (or lower, if you come at it from the other direction). The main thing weighting enables is consistency; or, in other words, repeatedly getting the same cup every time. I think 35g to 50g would give you two different tasting cups, no?
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada
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CathyWeeks (original poster)
- Posts: 321
- Joined: 8 years ago
Ok, I'm starting to read the articles suggested above, and I made my morning coffee this morning with a scale. A few things of note:
1. I weighed out 5 tbsp of coffee, and that weighed approximately 33gm. I normally also use 26 fluid ounces of water, which translates to about 760 grams. That's a ratio of about 23:1.
2. This morning, I was aiming for a ratio of 15:1, but ended up about 16:1. That meant I nearly doubled the number of tablespoons of coffee I used. Whoa, baby, was that intense. Far stronger than I really like.
3. On my next attempt, I'm going to try a 20:1 ratio to see how I like it.
But, when figuring out ratios, there are other variables to consider, namely grind (fine/coarse) and water temperature, and brew time. If I wind up settling on a 20:1 ratio, then I need to start figuring out how my grind affects it, and also the length of the brew time. But then it seems like I should test each variable separately. What ratio do I like when brewing for 2 minutes vs 4 minutes? And what ratio do I like when I grind finely vs coarsely? Whether I used 70/30 water or tap? etc.
So, I suppose my question really is: What's the best and most efficient way to arrive at my favored ratio and brew/grind/time settings?
I'm imagining that I need to methodically test each variable, but that's a LOT of coffee brews. It would take months, if I'm testing one thing each day.
Added: Oh, and brew method. I imagine that that changes the other variables too?
1. I weighed out 5 tbsp of coffee, and that weighed approximately 33gm. I normally also use 26 fluid ounces of water, which translates to about 760 grams. That's a ratio of about 23:1.
2. This morning, I was aiming for a ratio of 15:1, but ended up about 16:1. That meant I nearly doubled the number of tablespoons of coffee I used. Whoa, baby, was that intense. Far stronger than I really like.
3. On my next attempt, I'm going to try a 20:1 ratio to see how I like it.
But, when figuring out ratios, there are other variables to consider, namely grind (fine/coarse) and water temperature, and brew time. If I wind up settling on a 20:1 ratio, then I need to start figuring out how my grind affects it, and also the length of the brew time. But then it seems like I should test each variable separately. What ratio do I like when brewing for 2 minutes vs 4 minutes? And what ratio do I like when I grind finely vs coarsely? Whether I used 70/30 water or tap? etc.
So, I suppose my question really is: What's the best and most efficient way to arrive at my favored ratio and brew/grind/time settings?
I'm imagining that I need to methodically test each variable, but that's a LOT of coffee brews. It would take months, if I'm testing one thing each day.
Added: Oh, and brew method. I imagine that that changes the other variables too?
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baldheadracing
- Team HB
- Posts: 6289
- Joined: 9 years ago
Not saying this is how to do it, but this is how I did it:
I picked a method - in my case, Perger's V60 Hario V60 Pourover by Matt Perger [video] and then practiced until I was able to consistently replicate the brew recipe.
I'm not saying that this is the best recipe/method for V60 - but:
- it is easier to replicate because of the video, because replicating the video means that the only thing you have to adjust is the grind;
- 12g of coffee means that you don't have to go through huge amounts of coffee practicing;
- using water right off the boil means you don't have to fiddle with temperature;
- you don't need to master a difficult pouring technique; and
- if you get to the point of replicating the times and appearances in the video consistently then you're probably going to hit the extraction yield target.
Plus, you'll feel a somewhat silly sense of accomplishment when you get a 'Rao' spin from pouring alone. (The other way to get a 'Rao' spin is to spin the V60 itself.)
Once mastered, the method then serves as a baseline. Then you can use the Coffee Compass https://baristahustle.com/the-coffee-compass/ to change your brew to what you want. (As an aside, I'm not a Perger fanboy, but he has done some good stuff.)
Another approach is Tim Wendelboe's - I'd strongly suggest the Manual Brewing and Cupping videos. Tim Wendelboe on Roasting/Pourover/Espresso/Cupping [videos + index]
I picked a method - in my case, Perger's V60 Hario V60 Pourover by Matt Perger [video] and then practiced until I was able to consistently replicate the brew recipe.
I'm not saying that this is the best recipe/method for V60 - but:
- it is easier to replicate because of the video, because replicating the video means that the only thing you have to adjust is the grind;
- 12g of coffee means that you don't have to go through huge amounts of coffee practicing;
- using water right off the boil means you don't have to fiddle with temperature;
- you don't need to master a difficult pouring technique; and
- if you get to the point of replicating the times and appearances in the video consistently then you're probably going to hit the extraction yield target.
Plus, you'll feel a somewhat silly sense of accomplishment when you get a 'Rao' spin from pouring alone. (The other way to get a 'Rao' spin is to spin the V60 itself.)
Once mastered, the method then serves as a baseline. Then you can use the Coffee Compass https://baristahustle.com/the-coffee-compass/ to change your brew to what you want. (As an aside, I'm not a Perger fanboy, but he has done some good stuff.)
Another approach is Tim Wendelboe's - I'd strongly suggest the Manual Brewing and Cupping videos. Tim Wendelboe on Roasting/Pourover/Espresso/Cupping [videos + index]
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada
