Need Help: SINGLE vs DOUBLE shot of espresso
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 7 years ago
Pls answer my question below, I have big confusion:
1. Is it true that you must reach the same flavour for single and double shot?
2. Is it true that you must extract both shots with the same brew time?
3. Correct my hypothesis. If I do not change any variables for both shots except the amount of coffee (e.g single 7gr, double 14gr), my hypothesis is that both shots will not have the same flavour. Because 1) The single shot has less coffee and more time to extract so it will go further into the bitter side 2) The double has stronger flavour to acidic note due to more coffee and less time to extract.
4. If it is true that you must reach the same flavour for both with current variables (which only the amount of coffee is different), what variable will you change in the single shot espresso so it tastes the same as double?
5. If it is true that you must extract both shots with same brew time with current variables (which only the amount of coffee is different), how will you even get to half of the portion of the double since single shot has less coffee and it should extract faster?
Thanks~
1. Is it true that you must reach the same flavour for single and double shot?
2. Is it true that you must extract both shots with the same brew time?
3. Correct my hypothesis. If I do not change any variables for both shots except the amount of coffee (e.g single 7gr, double 14gr), my hypothesis is that both shots will not have the same flavour. Because 1) The single shot has less coffee and more time to extract so it will go further into the bitter side 2) The double has stronger flavour to acidic note due to more coffee and less time to extract.
4. If it is true that you must reach the same flavour for both with current variables (which only the amount of coffee is different), what variable will you change in the single shot espresso so it tastes the same as double?
5. If it is true that you must extract both shots with same brew time with current variables (which only the amount of coffee is different), how will you even get to half of the portion of the double since single shot has less coffee and it should extract faster?
Thanks~
- Randy G.
- Posts: 5340
- Joined: 17 years ago
You left out an important variable- a single uses approximately half the amount of water.josephdwi wrote:4. If it is true that you must reach the same flavour for both with current variables (which only the amount of coffee is different), what variable will you change in the single shot espresso so it tastes the same as double?~
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done
- canuckcoffeeguy
- Posts: 1286
- Joined: 10 years ago
Building on what Randy said, you're also forgetting about the grind variable. A single would need a finer grind to achieve a shot time that's similar to a double. So less coffee dosed for a single, yes, but also a finer grind and, thus, less water being used for a smaller shot.
Also, most of us don't bother with singles. Most people only pull doubles, myself included. Some people have mastered pulling singles, but they're notoriously more difficult to get right.
You might know this already, but you also need to use different baskets for singles and doubles. And each requires a different sized tamper. Another good reason to just make doubles.
Also, most of us don't bother with singles. Most people only pull doubles, myself included. Some people have mastered pulling singles, but they're notoriously more difficult to get right.
You might know this already, but you also need to use different baskets for singles and doubles. And each requires a different sized tamper. Another good reason to just make doubles.
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 7 years ago
I am new to this thing. You said that I need a finer grind for single. But based on science and how it works, does the finer ground will only make the extraction slower?
- canuckcoffeeguy
- Posts: 1286
- Joined: 10 years ago
Yes, finer grind will make the extraction slower. Which is what you want, because otherwise a 7g shot with the same grind as a 14g double will extract much faster.
A single dose means less coffee. And that means overall less resistance to the water being forced through under pressure. To achieve the same extraction time, you need compensate for the lower dose. To do that you need to grind finer for a single than for a double.
A single dose means less coffee. And that means overall less resistance to the water being forced through under pressure. To achieve the same extraction time, you need compensate for the lower dose. To do that you need to grind finer for a single than for a double.
- CorvusDoug
- Posts: 72
- Joined: 8 years ago
There also comes a point where you just can't brew such a small amount of coffee well with the equipment. Some will disagree, but I challenge you to pull a good 1g in, 2g out shot in 30 seconds. You can't. Is that minimum dose 5g? 10g? 15g? I don't know. That being said, even a "double shot" sized extraction is not that much liquid. Most of us will just dump half out if someone insists on a "single". It saves you the headache.
Just my two cents... good luck and welcome to the forums!
Just my two cents... good luck and welcome to the forums!
Corvus Coffee Roasters - Denver, CO
- [creative nickname]
- Posts: 1832
- Joined: 11 years ago
As someone who often enjoys pulling singles, here are a few thoughts:
1. Properly designed single baskets will handle the flow restriction for you by the simple expedient of having fewer holes. I generally keep my grind exactly the same when pulling singles or doubles.
2. You will need to experiment to find what doses taste best when using single baskets in this way. It won't always be half the dose that your double baskets take. The Caravel single baskets, for instance, like a dose in the 11-12g range, which is about 75% of a "double."
3. If you want to maintain similar extraction and mouthfeel as your double shots, you will want to target the same brew ratio in the same overall length of extraction time.
4. A dosed single basket has less thermal mass than a dosed double. This means that, for a given temperature of brew water, your effective brewing temperature will rise faster in the single than in the double basket. Thus, you may want to pull singles using slightly cooler water than you would for doubles, if you want the taste to match.
5. Even after you do all of this, the basket geometry of a single inherently produces some subtle differences in flavor and mouthfeel. When done right, singles tend to be lighter in body and clearer in taste.
1. Properly designed single baskets will handle the flow restriction for you by the simple expedient of having fewer holes. I generally keep my grind exactly the same when pulling singles or doubles.
2. You will need to experiment to find what doses taste best when using single baskets in this way. It won't always be half the dose that your double baskets take. The Caravel single baskets, for instance, like a dose in the 11-12g range, which is about 75% of a "double."
3. If you want to maintain similar extraction and mouthfeel as your double shots, you will want to target the same brew ratio in the same overall length of extraction time.
4. A dosed single basket has less thermal mass than a dosed double. This means that, for a given temperature of brew water, your effective brewing temperature will rise faster in the single than in the double basket. Thus, you may want to pull singles using slightly cooler water than you would for doubles, if you want the taste to match.
5. Even after you do all of this, the basket geometry of a single inherently produces some subtle differences in flavor and mouthfeel. When done right, singles tend to be lighter in body and clearer in taste.
LMWDP #435
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 7 years ago
Wow thanks to canuck, corvus and creative. Thanks for the welcome. That answers are for sure helping me out. Especially to creative, answering every single one of my question.
Actually, I was wrong at the beginning. My brain was set that both shots are using the same basket. I just quickly realise and snapped in my head once I saw the single basket has less hole and more taperred. This surely will slow the extraction down by many and will achieve around the same brew time as double.
Overally thanks for your experience on single shot, creative. Much appreciated!
If there is experienced single shot maker out there want to share his tips and techniques on how to pull a consistent single dosed, oh you are much likely welcome to share it here!
Thanks again!
Actually, I was wrong at the beginning. My brain was set that both shots are using the same basket. I just quickly realise and snapped in my head once I saw the single basket has less hole and more taperred. This surely will slow the extraction down by many and will achieve around the same brew time as double.
Overally thanks for your experience on single shot, creative. Much appreciated!
If there is experienced single shot maker out there want to share his tips and techniques on how to pull a consistent single dosed, oh you are much likely welcome to share it here!
Thanks again!