Hey guys

I'm having trouble understand what grinders are rather close in terms of shot quality. I've often read that a Pharos can outperform much more expensive electrical grinders, but how far "up the ladder" does the perform compared to electrical grinders? Which electrical grinders performs noticeably better than the Pharos? I'm only talking grind quality here. I understand that a lot of people prefer electrical because they are much easier to use daily then hand grinders.
I'm using the Pharos as a starting point, since it's so popular, but i've also like to hear where the other hand grinders like the Lido E and the HG-1 are of this "ladder"?

I own a Pharos. I personally found it to outperform my Mazzer mini, which I later sold. The Pharos uses a 68mm large conical burr of similar design to that used in the Compak K10 and other large conical burr "titan" grinders. Consensus is that performance in the cup is comparable.

Downside is that its slower, more prone to static issues, and more prone to distribution problems. These can all be improved with RDT, WDT, and practice. The Pharos in particular requires quite a fair bit of hand and shoulder strength to operate, particularly on light roasts. My wife and teenage daughter can't operate it at all. That said if you are strong and patient you will work out a routine that is manageable. I don't mean to imply you have to be some kind of superman (I'm certainly not), just that it takes a little muscle.

No contest, based upon my experiences, grinding for espresso using my former Mazzer Mini (B), former modified Pharos, HG-One (2014) and my current Mahlgut Grist MG-1. For me and a data sample of one each (grinder) I'm getting more flavors, more flavor depth and zero to near zero puck artifacts. Never mind the retention and cleanup issue differences with the MM...

Ditto above: Using my MG-1 with it anchored either via its suction feet on granite or toggle clamps to wood or metal plate is perfectly acceptable for medium to darker roasts. The toughest bean I've ground was a Wote Konga from Vertigo Roasters (San Juan Batista)...it was near hell. So if I preferred very light roasts such as that one I'd be wishing for the upcoming motor attachment from Mahlgut...then, for me, it would be the best of both worlds relative to a simple, affordable and a mobile capable grinder...

HTH.

Dan

I had a Pharos and never quite found the mod that gave me the same ease of adjustment as my Mazzers when trying new beans. But when the Pharos was dialed in it was very good. I really like the Lido E, but don't use it as much.

I put the Pharos & LIdo E ahead of the Mazzer Mini (had one of those), but from an overall ease use, ability to dial in, and taste behind the Super Jolly.

Dan,

Ignoring cost, how would you compare the HG-1 and the MG-1? Thanks.

We compared the 3 top hand grinders 2 days ago. It was not a test, rather a meeting with friends, trying the Mahlgut, Pharos (new version) and the Hg1. We didn't really noticed any real difference in the cup using the Olympia Cremina with a temp strip. The Hg1 was the easyest to operate, with RDT had 0,1 g retention (2-3g without it). The Pharos finished second regarding the ease of use. It easy to turn, but difficult to get the grind out of it. The Mahlgut was the far hardest to hold despite using the same burrs as the Pharos. Probably it's because it is taller. It doesn't needs the shaking dance to get the grinds from it, it holds the same amount as the Hg1 (it's because the static). Using the able2 mat with Hg1 makes grinding even easier, you can grind medium roasted beans with one hand (https://youtu.be/uSORLVC6Yf8). It might work with the Mahlgut, but not with the Pharos (you need to shake it to get the coffee out of it).

Katoci that is very interesting. I really thought that there would be a difference in the cup, perhaps just a small one. So basically, the price difference between the Pharos and the HG-1 is spent making it easier to turn and easier to get the grinds out? Of course it also looks amazing.

You can pull up multiple revues on here and the vast majority could not detect any significant difference in the in-cup results between those 3 grinders. The only significant differences are perceived ease of use and the real difference in delivered cost.

I used a Pharos for 3-4 shots a day for about two years. For the past 4-5 months I've been using a Mahlgut MG-1 for 4-5 shots a day. I can't tell any difference in the cup taste wise - and both produce nice fluffy grounds. The differences are apples and oranges around usability. The Pharos is superior in my experience with light roasts for the simple reason that it is easy used as a knee mill and you aren't fighting it. The MG-1 is challenging here as it is virtually impossible to use as a knee mill due to the shape and the drawer - and with light roasts, you are fighting it the whole time as the suction feet are very ineffective with hard bean grinding. The Pharos suffers in terms of grounds retention and removal (although this can be addressed via modding) and alignment. Apparently once one gets it aligned and then locks down the inner bolts, this isn't an issue, but I've found initial alignment difficult and then getting it to stay aligned while you tighten the inner bolts is a complicated dance. Compare that to the MG-1 which stays aligned no matter what you throw at it, and the ease of grounds removal via the drawer.

If you use a good deal of light roasts, you may be frustrated by the MG-1. But if you use mainly medium to dark roasts, I think it has the edge in terms of user-friendliness. Again, I don't think there are differences in the cup.

Forgot to mention that the Pharos owner had allignment issues when the grinder was delivered (that was few months ago only). Not an issue with the MG and Hg1.
Some other guys from our local forum found, the Pharos produces a bit of extra bitterness compared to Hg1, which we didn't feel.