This is my first machine. I am building my families house and my payment is a new espresso machine. I am currently running a 3/8 water line to where the machine will live a long with a dedicated 20amp outlet. The grinder I have chosen is the Firenzato F4. I have been researching myself crazy, and cannot come to a conclusion I feel good about. I was trying to keep from posting about the stereotypical "what machine to buy", but living in Akron Ohio I don't have anywhere to try any machines. I was first going to buy HX machine but I do not want to be messing around with flushing and space devices. So I decided DB machine. I wanted pro 700 but 2700$ is a lot of cash. Then Alex or Vetrano but read a lot of issues with them. I was also told Vetrano doesn't steam the greatest and I really enjoy lattes flat white etc. never had good espresso so not sure I will ever be an aficionado or not. This brings me to la spaziale. Was set on dream but it seams like issues, then Vivaldi II. I AM VERY CONCERNED that getting a 53mm will not be forgiving and will frustrate me. I do not want to send back a machine to a good retailer or pay the shipping. I am also confused on how the buttons work being there is no manual function. Just looking for a forgiving machine I can grow with and whip out some milk based drinks and espressos back to back before work. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks mike

Surely there are many happy Vivaldi/ Dream customers out there. I don't know that you will be unhappy with the 53mm basket size.

The 53mm PF while not a common as the 58mm standard will deliver delicious espresso just like the bigger counterpart. I had a mini Vivaldi for a year and it was a great machine. It was my first serious machine and found it forgiving. Sure there is a learning curve but that's for every machine. I'm now using a commercial home lever machine (Salvatore compact lever) but if I were to go back to a pump machine it would deserve serious consideration. Best bang for the buck in a double boiler IMO but you have to like the looks as well. Clive coffee makes some attractive panels for the Vivaldi. The programming is not that daunting. Only downside is the timer that you have to purchase from la spaziale (or their authorized distributors) if you want it to turn on and be ready for you in the morning. There are workarounds for this on the s1cafe forum

I'd also call Chris coffee and speak to them since they have been involved with la spaziale from the beginning and much more knowledgeable than I can convey in my opinion here.

Happy La Spaziale Mini II owner here. Obviously you would be running the plumbed version, which I don't have, but I'll try my best to help you out.

The button functionality is very simple. There is an on/off button and a hot water button which require very little explanation. The holding of the on/off button is used to change your temp. There is a single and a double shot button, both of which are programmable. If you're the kind of person that sticks to one bean all the time, you can dial it in on your grinder, set your volumetric sh** buttons and one button press = espresso. I change beans often and use my buttons as follows:
Single Shot : 5 second warming flush
Double shot : 60 seconds (manually stop shot with a second button press)

As for the 53mm portafilter, the first time you see it'll look weird. After a month, you won't remember what a 58mm PF looks like. I didn't find the smaller size PF to by any more or less forgiving of user error than the 58mm. For me...it's just different.

If you do go with a plumbed version of a La Spaz machine, you get pre-infusion capabilities which will help with forgiveness. However, I would encourage you to buy the machine that you want and forget about whether it will be "forgiving" or not. This is an appliance that you plan to enjoy for many years to come, and your skillz (correctly spelled with a Z) will grow the longer and more you use it.

If you have other La Spaz questions, I'm more than happy to weigh in again.

EDIT: After reading HBfencing's post I'd like to add that should you buy new, I think the Dream is a wonderful option. I believe that it has a built in shot timer (something you will love as you learn the craft) as well as a built in on/off timer which will also makes your mornings nicer, a luxury I wish I had. If you purchase a MV, this time costs I believe $150.

The Dream does have a built in shot timer.

JerDGold wrote:As for the 53mm portafilter, the first time you see it'll look weird. After a month, you won't remember what a 58mm PF looks like. I didn't find the smaller size PF to by any more or less forgiving of user error than the 58mm. For me...it's just different.

How true this is. The Caravel's 43mm portafilter looked more like a scale model than the actual thing the first time I saw it. Now I don't think twice about it except when I'm in a cafe and see the behemoth of a filter on the machines there.

The only concerns I'd have with a size under 58mm is for the availability of parts in the extremely long term, or maybe certain accessories. As long I'd have no doubt parts would still be around in 40 years it wouldn't be a significant factor in a decision for me. Unless you're really into VST baskets or something of the like that's 58mm only.

Thank you all so much for your replies. To be honest I have never even touched a portafilter before. I started drinking coffee in my early 20's when I became a pilot to hang in there with the crazy schedule and different hotel every night. 15 years later I get married this year and my new wife takes me to Starbucks to get a latte. Now she is sorry she did lol after seeing the price of the machine. I'm very excited to jump into this specialty coffee thing. I'm going with the la Spaz and am currently running my dedicated 20amp with 3/8 water line to machine. Thanks again everyone. Now to watch more videos and plot coffees to try. Now to decide dream or vivaldi II

Was in your situation and bought a La San Marco 85-12-1 for a great price, knowing only that it was essentially a commercial semi-auto hx machine and the price was a steal. Took a bit of learning as is inevitable, and with the help of kind folks here and at coffeegeek, I am now getting consistent shots, learning to diagnose by taste and sight, and really enjoying and sharing the delicious coffee. You learn the basics then get a feel for it.

All this pleasure despite the fact that I have since learned that my 30-year-old machine has the following "shortcomings":

it is not an e61 machine,
it is a hx machine and needs a cooling flush (which also cleans the drip try and can warm the PF if necessary),
It has an odd-sized 55mm portafilter
it does not have a naked portafilter,
it does not offer pressure profiling
the temp is controlled by a pressure stat not a microprocessor,
it has no volumetric dosing,
my tamper is inadequate
my grinder has a doser and does not deliver a precisely-weighed measure of coffee evenly distributed into the portafilter...

You get the point...

While forums like this are fantastic, helpful, and do advance the state of the DIY art, they can validate compulsive acquisitiveness, send you down rabbit holes and overwhelm with too much info, and ultimately make you unhappy if you don't quite know when to quit chasing the dream. (High end audio is the worst for this... I have learned that a glass of great wine can save you hundreds on that nagging need for an expensive papally blessed power cord. I digress....) Go crazy on tech and detail if that's fun for you but it really doesn't matter, as many of the others who responded have also inferred.

Relax and enjoy. I now know (for me) that any simple, cool-looking, good quality HX or DB machine, with plumbed in water and drain and a big enough boiler to make a few cappucini in a row for friends (and heat the cups on top) will give a great deal of pleasure with a minimum of regret, and that learning to use it is more than half the fun.

Dave

Roger that Dave. We can get caught up in all that stuff. I gave myself 2 months to really ponder what I was looking for and tried to talk myself into A less expensive machine. I know myself and I will want to be rocking out flat whites like a pro as soon as I can. I hope this machine will do this. Thanks again everyone looking forward to learning and maybe meeting some new people to show me some stuff

[quote="Mwilson4040"tried to talk myself into A less expensive machine[/quote]

Congrats, keep us updated as you learn. I think it's wise of you to not talk yourself into spending less, assuming you can afford what you are buying. There's nothing worse than wishing, 4 months down the line, that you had spent for a few more features. As long as you feel good about you purchase (see perceived value) then you chose wisely.