Hi Everyone,

I know that one should drink their espresso fairly quickly after it is prepared because the flavor breaks down very rapidly. Keeping this in mind, I thought it may be best to froth the milk at the same time as making the espresso (I have a Mini Vivaldi II). However, in many of the videos I've seen, the espresso is made first, set aside, then milk is frothed. Is there a reason for this? Will frothing milk and pouring espresso simultaneously put a heavy burden on the espresso machine, causing it to break down sooner? If I shouldn't do it simultaneously, should the frothing be done before the espresso shot is poured so as to retain flavor? Or, does it matter much?

Dual Boiler Machines are built for double duty. Others could possibly have a larger temperature swing. I do believe that the best espressos are the ones that still taste good after they have cooled, drinking something much hotter than our body temperature can fool us. Regardless, milk has the ability to mask the subtle notes in the espresso. If you made a latte with shots made 10 seconds ago or 5 minutes ago, I doubt you would taste much of a difference, a macciatto yes, cappuccino maybe. Try it, see how it works!

I always prep my pitcher and fill it with milk and then start my shots, simutaiouely steam and brew

Thank you for the response.

Any machine of modest ability will steam and pull shots simultaneously. If you had to do one before the other I prefer to steam first then pull my shot. In the end it is a matter of what works best for you and your setup. I prep my shot, purge the steam wand, do my cooling flush, pull the shot and steam. I am finished steaming before the shot is finished.

I also have no issue letting my drink slowly cool as I sip it. A good coffee will have some cup complexity and the flavors will develop and change as the cup temperature cools.

If you're forced to choose between pulling the shot or steaming first (for instance, if you have a SBDU machine), my suggestion is to pull the shot first. In a latte, the milk is the featured component, so you probably want to focus more on having it as perfectly textured as possible. As said earlier, you'll be masking some of the subtleties of the shot anyways, and it needs to cool slightly before your drink it anyways (if you were to drink it straight). This was the logic taught to me by Heather Perry, when I took her one day class about 8 years ago. It made a lot of sense to me then, and it still does today.

I have manual lever machines , so unless one has six arms, you do one at a time. I pull my shot, pour it into my heated mug, then steam my milk.

I brew, then steam, even though my HX machine would let me do it simultaneously. My milk texture is much better if I can focus on it and not try to watch the shot. If you're going to do it in stages, I find the milk second is better for two reasons - first, I know my flush routine so I get the espresso to brew at the right temperature, and second, I'd rather the milk (the majority of liquid in the cup) be hottest.

I have a dual boiler machine, and while it can be used to pull and steam simultaneously, I think the real value of the double boiler in the home is simply that you don't have to wait for one or the other to be ready to use. As soon as you pull the the shot, you can steam. As soon as you finish steaming, you can pull a shot. It is ready to do either one faster than I am

I prepare my pitcher of milk, grind/dose/tamp/pull my shot into the heated cup, set it aside, clean and flush the portafilter/head, and then steam the milk, clean/flush the wand, and pour the milk.

A slight cooling down of the shot while steaming the milk is not really an issue: the temperature of the milk (and the larger thermal mass) will drive the temperature of the latte itself, in any case.

I always agreed with the approach of frothing first then pulling the shot. The reason is that while the taste doesn't really change much minute to minute, the crema begins to dissipate immediately and losses body with each passing second. The crema is kind of like your canvass for the design on top, so you want it there when you're pouring. Everyone has their own method though.

thepilgrimsdream wrote:I do believe that the best espressos are the ones that still taste good after they have cooled

Yes! I accidentally discovered that many good espresso-based drinks of any kind continue to taste good as they cool down. I used to leave the last bit in the cup if it was cool on the lips, no matter what the drink. But for some reason, I once drank the rest of a cold macchiato and it had the taste of really good coffee ice cream. So I started slowing down when drinking my coffee (except for the ristretto I chug when I just need a quick shot), and I discovered how nicely coffee drinks can evolve. It's like enjoying a glass of wine as it opens up and changes while you drink it.

As for the OP, I steam first when using a non-HX SB. I run (actually, I ran - I only have a HX right now) the cooling flush through the wand into a mug and used the hot water to clean the milk from the outside while the water came back down to brew temp. Pulling the shot first meant waiting for the boiler to heat to steam temp after the shot was in the cup, which takes a lot longer on the SB machines I've had than coming back down to brew temp. I like to start with a hot drink, and it's been easier for me to clean the milk off the wand immediately with the hottest water than after it bakes on as you drink your coffee.

With Oscar, I preinfuse by partially depressing the pump button twice for 3 seconds each. Then I sink the tip into the milk, lock the pump button on, drop the pitcher to bring the tip just below the surface, and stretch / texturize while the shot's emerging.