Kaldi23 wrote:I'm looking to upgrade my machine, and have narrowed the field to a BDB or Decent DE1PRO. Would like to hear H-B'ers thoughts on these two machines. I currently drink espresso-only. While it's not an immediate priority, I would like to have solid steaming ability. I'm the only coffee drinker in the household - 1-3 shots per day. I am an engineer, so am comfortable with geeking on the machine. Ruled out the many E61 options due to: long heat-up times, what I percieve to be the trickery involved in adjusting shot parameters, and the bling factor, which just isn't important to me.

BDB Pros:
(1) Cost
(2) Performance - temperature control and ability to adjust pressure profile
(3) Support - both from Breville and the H-B community

BDB Cons:
(1) Reliability - repairable and serviceable, but probably not a 10-year machine
(2) Steaming performance - good, but relatively slow. Not a big deal to me atm (may not ever be)

Decent Pros:
(1) Performance and adjustability - I like infinite adjustability coupled with repeatability
(2) Form factor - simple design in a compact package
(3) Support - my impression is that Decent support is good + they appear to have a very active user's group
(4) Plumbable

Decent Cons:
(1) Risks of early adoption - my sense is the v1.1 Decents have had bugs, some of which have been addressed and some of which will be addressed with future versions. However, my worst fear: Decent stops making and supporting these machines, mine breaks, and I have an expensive paperweight
(2) Unknown reliability - no idea what's going to break and whether I will be able to service the machine myself
(3) No simultaneous brew and steam - again, not a priority to me now and may never be

Thoughts?

You are considering, in my opinion and research, the 2 best home espresso machines on the market. I was at this exact same crossroads. I used a BDB for 30 days and loved every minute of it. Last night I ordered the DE1 and sent back my BDD via a 'free return' policy.

The BDB is simply an amazing machine. It can preinfuse starting around 3ml/s (55% of pump) and go up from there. You can preinfuse up to 99 seconds and increase the pump up to full (around 6ml/s) so you have a LOT of ability to produce amazing shots, even mirroing shots you see on the DE1. Its pressure gague is at the puck, something few machines have. This allows you to see when preinfusion is complete (i.e pressure rises to 3-4 bar) and go to full pump pressure. You can then pressure profile during the full shot via the hot water knob (there are posts on here about that but it's linear and straight forward). The temp is super stable, it heats in 5 minutes, and has tons of nice Breville ease of use features: fill water tank from the top, visible water level, auto clean cycle, clean reminder, empty drip tray notification, etc. The steam, like Bob said, is amazing. It makes effortless microfoam in a very reasonable amount of time. Super easy to pour latte art.

So what's not to like? Well, you named it -- concerns with reliability. While the $400 repair program is simple in that they send you a box, you send them the machine, they send it back, some users have reported issues such as their problem not being properly fixed. Some users (like Peter) have received brand new machines. I think the issue there is not can it be fixed but is there $400 of repairs needed? Most times, the answer is no and that's the frustration. O-Rings ($10), a solenoid ($40), a grouphead collar ($3), a pump ($40), and the cursed steam ball valve ($50) are the common points of failure, all items that are very easily user replaced. The problem is parts are not readily available. The o-rings and pump are universal. The grouphead collar used to be listed on Breville's website but no longer for some reason. Ereplacement parts recently listed them but users are getting emails a few weeks later that sounds like a 'false positive.' It's a simple plastic collar that can break from locking in the portafilter. I am absolutely baffled that it's even a thing! It should be sold along side the gasket (that they call a 'steam ring' for some reason).

The solenoid goes in and out of stock on ereplacement parts but appears to now be in stock (could be a false positive though). The biggeset issue is the steam ball valve. Seems to get leaky every 12-24 months. Some people make it 3 years. Problem is they have been out of stock forever. There may be one in stock now but it also may be a 'false positive' as it's listed in a category not even connected to the BDB. Peter is close to finding a generic part and filing it down to fit. Again -- I can't believe this is even a thing. Spending $400 every time a $40 part wears out can get very expensive, very fast, over the life of a machine.

RANT: I have no idea why Breville / Phil McKnight won't just release the BDB parts. Every espresso forum has these same experiences with the BDB. I get the Oracle / Barista Touch being a consumer focused machine that would be easier for them to service. But the BDB is a home barista's dream machine, yet many of us who would be perfectly content with it are afraid to own one due to the fact they when simple wearable parts wear out we can't easily get them to keep out machine going for decades. To be clear, the BDB can make coffee that very few machines (if any) can beat at a fraction of the cost. It's one HECK of a machine and I was totally blown away but couldn't commit long term due to the above.

/endrant

If the DE1PRO didn't exist, I'd have kept the BDB and just dealt with it like many have. But the DE1PRO is an incredible machine. I believe it will be something that should last for decades (It's rated for 200,000 shots, more than I'll use in my life time) and is proving to be the real deal in technology. It can do stuff $20,000 machines can't. It's solidly built and accepts commercial portafilters (After using the BDB for a month and going back to my Pro 500, I had forgotten how nice the solid feel of true commercial equipment was like to use; plastic is ok but nothing creaks on all metal machines when you lock in).

To me, the DE1PRO's killer feature is flow profiling. The BDB can pressure profile with the best of them. But flow profiling is where things get interesting. It can make bad shots salvagable; it can repair channels making shots that would have sucked on a GS3 very good on a DE1PRO. It also allows for a natural pressure decline (via puck degredation) as it will make sure flow stays to what you have it set on so if there is less resistance then it will reduce the pump so that flow doesn't increase. Brilliant stuff.

All the other geeky feature aside (which I"m sure I"ll use, including emulations!), the ability to have the same flow, every time, is a true game changer. I have no worries about part supply if something goes wrong. John strikes me as someone just like Denis (Kafatek) or Reiss (Londinium). All of them will respond to your emails and get you what you need, timely. This is something Breville refuses to do which is what drove me to look elsewhere.

So both machiens will make incredible coffee. The DE1PRO will be the last machine you ever need to buy. To be fair, you could just keep spending money on the Breville repair program. But every 3rd trip is the equivalent of buying a new machine. In 10 years could likely have as much invested in the BDB as you do in a DE1PRO. Something to think about.

Enjoy the journey!

(NOTE: I'm a huge fan of Breville and did not mean this to come off as a bash. But it's a real issue in my opinion for easily repairable parts not to be readily available, causing unnecessary trips to service centers. If that were to be fixed, then the BDB would be sitting on my bench and I wouldn't have splurged on the DE1PRO. That's how impressed I was with my 30-day use of the BDB).