First espresso machine, limited budget
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- Posts: 314
- Joined: 6 years ago
Hi,
I'm a beginner at being a home barista.
At the moment, I make my coffee with bialetti moka pot and a cheap manual burr grinder - I get decent results, but nothing spectacular. For my milk I use microwave and a battery frother, again, with decent results.
However, decent doesn't do it for me anymore and that's why I am ready to invest in a new espresso machine and a grinder.
My budget is definitely limited - I definitely can't afford a prosumer machine, but I want something solid that can get me good results.
I was looking at Gaggia Classic (would have to replace the steaming wand) and Rancilio Silvia, which is a bit pricey. Are there any better options?
What kinda grinder should I get regardles of what machine I go with? Any other accesories you'd reccommend?
Also, keep in mind I live in Europe, so I may not have access to every single machine/grinder.
Thanks.
I'm a beginner at being a home barista.
At the moment, I make my coffee with bialetti moka pot and a cheap manual burr grinder - I get decent results, but nothing spectacular. For my milk I use microwave and a battery frother, again, with decent results.
However, decent doesn't do it for me anymore and that's why I am ready to invest in a new espresso machine and a grinder.
My budget is definitely limited - I definitely can't afford a prosumer machine, but I want something solid that can get me good results.
I was looking at Gaggia Classic (would have to replace the steaming wand) and Rancilio Silvia, which is a bit pricey. Are there any better options?
What kinda grinder should I get regardles of what machine I go with? Any other accesories you'd reccommend?
Also, keep in mind I live in Europe, so I may not have access to every single machine/grinder.
Thanks.
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- Supporter ♡
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- Joined: 9 years ago
You don't state your budget. I suggest you look into the articles on this web site about espresso machines. You should also read about grinders.
First the grinder. Buy the best one you can afford and still have enough cash left for a decent espresso machine. The Baratza grinders are considered good value and are available nearly everywhere. Look on their web site and you'll see a comparison page. There are lots of other grinders out there, but Baratza has a good track record of looking after their customers. And their prices are reasonable. I'd stay away from the Baratza 270W, which is a weight-based grinder (still has a few bugs). The other Sette grinders are fine. Also watch though that you don't buy a Sette 270-30, as it lacks the fine adjustment needed for making good espresso. You can buy grinders for less, but you'll get less grinder. If your budget is severely restricted, consider a manual grinder, although it gets to be a PITA manually grinding each day (been there!).
As for the machines, there are many types, but the three main ones are single boiler, heat exchanger (HX) and double boiler (DB). The Gaggia Classic is highly recommended as a starter. It is a single boiler machine that uses boiler water for brewing and steaming. You can't steam and make coffee at the same time or even quickly one after the other, as you have to learn to manipulate the boiler temperature for steaming and for espresso making. The Rancilio is the same thing...think of the Gaggia as a VW and the Rancilio as a BMW...same thing, both acceptable, just a question of quality.
An HX is also a single boiler machine, but it only uses boiler water for steaming. For brewing, there is a heat exchanger in the boiler that rapidly heats reservoir water as it passes through the boiler. Once you get the hang of it, you can make espressos back to back as fast as you like. You can also steam and brew at the same time, or brew and steam back to back. They cost more than single boilers.
The DB machines have a little boiler for brewing and another for steaming. They cost more than HX machines.
There is another sort of machine that uses a thermoblock/thermocoil. Breville (may go by a different brand name where you are) makes most of these. On a budget you can get a lot for your money with these machines. There are also a few that have two thermoblocks and at least one that has a brew boiler and a steam thermoblock. I've had a bunch of these machines. Think 'home appliance' here. The foregoing three types of machines are more oriented to the serious espresso maker.
Well, that's my quick overview. You really need to establish a budget and read all the articles. Every machine is different, with different qualitya nd different features. They all make espresso!
First the grinder. Buy the best one you can afford and still have enough cash left for a decent espresso machine. The Baratza grinders are considered good value and are available nearly everywhere. Look on their web site and you'll see a comparison page. There are lots of other grinders out there, but Baratza has a good track record of looking after their customers. And their prices are reasonable. I'd stay away from the Baratza 270W, which is a weight-based grinder (still has a few bugs). The other Sette grinders are fine. Also watch though that you don't buy a Sette 270-30, as it lacks the fine adjustment needed for making good espresso. You can buy grinders for less, but you'll get less grinder. If your budget is severely restricted, consider a manual grinder, although it gets to be a PITA manually grinding each day (been there!).
As for the machines, there are many types, but the three main ones are single boiler, heat exchanger (HX) and double boiler (DB). The Gaggia Classic is highly recommended as a starter. It is a single boiler machine that uses boiler water for brewing and steaming. You can't steam and make coffee at the same time or even quickly one after the other, as you have to learn to manipulate the boiler temperature for steaming and for espresso making. The Rancilio is the same thing...think of the Gaggia as a VW and the Rancilio as a BMW...same thing, both acceptable, just a question of quality.
An HX is also a single boiler machine, but it only uses boiler water for steaming. For brewing, there is a heat exchanger in the boiler that rapidly heats reservoir water as it passes through the boiler. Once you get the hang of it, you can make espressos back to back as fast as you like. You can also steam and brew at the same time, or brew and steam back to back. They cost more than single boilers.
The DB machines have a little boiler for brewing and another for steaming. They cost more than HX machines.
There is another sort of machine that uses a thermoblock/thermocoil. Breville (may go by a different brand name where you are) makes most of these. On a budget you can get a lot for your money with these machines. There are also a few that have two thermoblocks and at least one that has a brew boiler and a steam thermoblock. I've had a bunch of these machines. Think 'home appliance' here. The foregoing three types of machines are more oriented to the serious espresso maker.
Well, that's my quick overview. You really need to establish a budget and read all the articles. Every machine is different, with different qualitya nd different features. They all make espresso!
- happycat
- Posts: 1464
- Joined: 11 years ago
I have a gaggia classic.
I think it really benefited from adding a PID to stabilize the temperature and quickly ramp up to steam temperature. I also swapped the steam wand, tweaked the OPV to reduce the pressure, replaced the baskets with VST, and eventually automated it to add preinfusion.
I bought the classic and a Baratza encore originally. A big mistake. I don't know if it makes sense but I think a Sette 270 with a manual lever like a flair (didn't exist back then) might've been a better place for me to start. That doesn't address the milk issue, but if I had better espresso maybe I wouldn't care about milk.
I think it really benefited from adding a PID to stabilize the temperature and quickly ramp up to steam temperature. I also swapped the steam wand, tweaked the OPV to reduce the pressure, replaced the baskets with VST, and eventually automated it to add preinfusion.
I bought the classic and a Baratza encore originally. A big mistake. I don't know if it makes sense but I think a Sette 270 with a manual lever like a flair (didn't exist back then) might've been a better place for me to start. That doesn't address the milk issue, but if I had better espresso maybe I wouldn't care about milk.
LMWDP #603
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- Posts: 314
- Joined: 6 years ago
Thanks for replies!
My budget isn't set accurately - I realize that best value isn't always the cheapest, but certainly under 1000EUR for all of the gear.
I was looking at Silvia (worth it over gaggia + mods?). For a grinder, I was looking at Rancilio Rocky. If I get gaggia, I could spend a little more for a grinder - what kinda price range will get me a good one?
I'd also have to get a tamper. Any other accessories I should get?
My budget isn't set accurately - I realize that best value isn't always the cheapest, but certainly under 1000EUR for all of the gear.
I was looking at Silvia (worth it over gaggia + mods?). For a grinder, I was looking at Rancilio Rocky. If I get gaggia, I could spend a little more for a grinder - what kinda price range will get me a good one?
I'd also have to get a tamper. Any other accessories I should get?
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- Posts: 545
- Joined: 10 years ago
I would reserve a bit more for the grinder in your overall budget. My bet would be Compak K3, Quamar Q50E, Fiorenzato F4E or the Baratza Sette 270, the latter for low grind retention in particular. It will leave a budget of about EUR. 500,- to 600,- for your machine. If you can pick one of these up 2nd hand and get a new set of burrs, even better.
For a machine, I would also look at a Lelit PL41 TEM (with PID).
For a machine, I would also look at a Lelit PL41 TEM (with PID).
Bert
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- Posts: 314
- Joined: 6 years ago
I guess I could squeeze that sette 270 into my budget (considering it's a lot better than rocky?),
What's the deal with PID? Is it necessary?
Also, the lelit machine doesn't have the best reviews ever - what makes it superior to rancilio silvia (same price)?
What's the deal with PID? Is it necessary?
Also, the lelit machine doesn't have the best reviews ever - what makes it superior to rancilio silvia (same price)?
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- Posts: 545
- Joined: 10 years ago
Nothing is 'necessary" in the absolute sense, except that the machine heats up water and is able to dispense it.
On a Single Boiler machine, the temperature of the brew water is more repeatable from shot to shot when it is controllef by a PID. With a conventional thermostat you have to put more effort in temperature surfing, timing the heating cycle and starting the extraction at the right moment. The Lelit isn't necessarily superior, just an alternative that comes furnished with a PID, while the Silvia does not. The edge that the Silvia has is a larger boiler, so more of a heat buffer.
On a Single Boiler machine, the temperature of the brew water is more repeatable from shot to shot when it is controllef by a PID. With a conventional thermostat you have to put more effort in temperature surfing, timing the heating cycle and starting the extraction at the right moment. The Lelit isn't necessarily superior, just an alternative that comes furnished with a PID, while the Silvia does not. The edge that the Silvia has is a larger boiler, so more of a heat buffer.
Bert
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- Posts: 314
- Joined: 6 years ago
I can get the silvia quite a bit cheaper than the lelit one - I also think I can live without PID (I could still mod the silvia).
I noticed that gaggia classic has gotten a bit cheaper in build quality over the years.
Are there any (cheaper) alternatives to sette 270?
I noticed that gaggia classic has gotten a bit cheaper in build quality over the years.
Are there any (cheaper) alternatives to sette 270?
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- Posts: 314
- Joined: 6 years ago
Would a manual machine (La Pavoni) be suitable? How workable is it (I know you won't be pulling 8 shots in a row or anything crazy, but is it a joke or a real deal?).
- drgary
- Team HB
- Posts: 14370
- Joined: 14 years ago
Levers can provide excellent and repeatable shots, no joke. Like anything you need to learn how to control it. There are also levers reviewed on our site.
Gary
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!