HH wrote:Honestly I haven't noticed much difference between beans when using the razor. I have only tried it on 8 different varieties with the razor but the dose on all of them was within 0.1g of each other after using the tool. You only use the razor tool after tamping, so fluffiness of grind and distribution technique doesn't come into it.

If you know the recommended dose for your basket then that's really all you need to razor to find, so you may not need to use it again. The reason I suggest using the razor is you mentioned that some of your initial doses it didn't reach the razor, which suggests you are under dosing for your basket.

If you don't have an accurate scale, you will find using the razor more useful to get consistency throughout a bag of beans as opposed to portentially being 0.9g out on a dose. As others have mentioned, dosing by volume will not be as accurate as dosing by weight - although personally I have found negligible deviation in measured weight when using the same volume post-tamping measured with the razor - but until you get a decent scale I would consider using something so you know your dosing the same amount each time.

Thanks this makes sense I've been trying today to get a dose right so far up to 20g on my scale and almost Bearly not touching the razor. Probably as mentioned 21g is the sweet spot or roughly there. Ordered a scale earlier seems the aws 2000 is one a few have used over the years. A bit more than I wanted to spend on it but 20 once is better than continuing to sink pucks. I'm kind of getting the hang of it now just to get the taste I'm looking for.

Step two latte art another headache lol.

Got the scale last night. Never realized how finicky a g only scale is. The deviation between my original and new is in the minimal rounding range but to the point of 1/10 diff in the FB is definitely a thing that can impact.

So to the point earlier about underdosing: if I put less and grind finer but say was able to get the time and volume out to match the "statistically" correct numbers that still wouldn't suggest a good shot because then I may not be extracting the right type or amount of flavor. Bottom line and correct me if I'm wrong the times and volumes are all subjective and the ideal would be a full basket with the same parameters?

That being the case I just got two more bags the ladro and the big trouble (ordered on scg) let the testing continue. Came to the conclusion last week that sinking 6 shots for nothing isn't an effective use of money or product so will resort to making only when drinking sadly that takes a lot longer.

Put in the same dose by weight every time, then adjust the grind to achieve the parameters you need. I wouldn't start changing the dose until you are happy your grinder settings are spot on and you get the flavour you want with the recommended dose for the basket. Once you've shot this dialled in you can then start playing with dosing if you want.

Got it and then back to beginning because dose and grind are different. Sorry for all the questions it's kind of talking through it that helps understand.

Appreciate EVERYONES help and guidance!!!

No worries - I went through all of this myself only a few months ago! Shout if you have any more questions or if it's not working for some reason.

OK31 wrote:Got it and then back to beginning because dose and grind are different. Sorry for all the questions it's kind of talking through it that helps understand.

Appreciate EVERYONES help and guidance!!!

I don't think it is necessary to be within 0.1 gram.. for me within a 1/4 of a gram is close enough.
Also, being timed to the exact second doesn't matter as much as having it within 25-30 seconds and some cases a little bit more. Once within this time, the taste of the shot is way more important

Randy

slipchuck wrote:I don't think it is necessary to be within 0.1 gram.. for me within a 1/4 of a gram is close enough.
Also, being timed to the exact second doesn't matter as much as having it within 25-30 seconds and some cases a little bit more. Once within this time, the taste of the shot is way more important

That definitely depends upon your kit. I notice differences in 0.1g changes of dose.

+1 on time not being the greatest factor. With the beans that I use now, the shot weight gives me a better guarantee of success than time. If I'm aiming for 35g out, I'm not going to worry about +/- 3 seconds on the shot clock.

Kevin

Alright guys my scale apparently was the wrong one a bit too sensitive 1/100 so while that's being addressed back to the old one. Getting closer 18g in -> 36g out time no idea 15.8 second grind time at 13 setting. Possibly a more roasted bean but flavor is getting in the much fuller flavor a lot less acid/sour/vibrant maybe getting into butter range but need to test more. So would time even matter even if it took 40 sec? If I got out 1:2? It would suggest the proportions etc are correct enough so where do I go from here to adjust taste?

The biggest deciding factor is taste taste taste.
The harder part is to get the same taste every time


Randy

OK31 wrote:Alright guys my scale apparently was the wrong one a bit too sensitive 1/100 so while that's being addressed back to the old one. Getting closer 18g in -> 36g out time no idea 15.8 second grind time at 13 setting. Possibly a more roasted bean but flavor is getting in the much fuller flavor a lot less acid/sour/vibrant maybe getting into butter range but need to test more. So would time even matter even if it took 40 sec? If I got out 1:2? It would suggest the proportions etc are correct enough so where do I go from here to adjust taste?

If shots take much longer than 30 seconds (yes even with and especially with pre infusion) it's usually an indication that the grind is too fine. If the coffee is too fine then the water can't actually make water ways through the entire puck which is what you want. Essentially you're leaving flavor and body behind that you could have had even though it took longer. Sometimes in extreme cases like minute long shots, if you carefully knock out the puck and break it open it looks like a Reese's peanut butter cup because the water just went between the walls of the basket and the coffee bed! Finding the "sweet spot" shot time with any recipe takes experience but usually the turning point where the shots start to get worse is around 30-32 seconds.

Example with the exact same 1:2 shot ratio:
15 seconds -- sour and watery
20 seconds -- still sour but has more body
25 seconds -- getting better, has some sweetness
30 seconds -- sweet and full bodied, let's keep going!
35 seconds -- maybe not awful but doesn't seem as full or sweet as the last one. grind finer?
40 seconds -- sour and watery again, what the heck even! <--flavor and body is left behind since the grind is too fine choking up water passage

Aim for around 30 seconds, and taste taste taste! Hope this was helpful.