Challenge gone with high end espresso equipment? - Page 2

#11: Post by **Randy G.** » September 16th, 2017, 11:18 pm

chris_n wrote:it forces you to find better roasters

...
..and embarrasses you, because what you thought was good coffee was just mediocre on its best day.

{good one, Chris!}

#12: Post by **drgary** » September 17th, 2017, 1:04 am

chris_n wrote:it forces entices you to find get better roasters

Edits are mine! I moved earlier in the process to start roasting, and there better equipment lets me focus on what Rob Hoos describes as how to "present" the coffee, which means exploring the potential of high quality greens. That's such a deep rabbit hole I'm glad to have excellent gear.

#13: Post by **billt** » September 17th, 2017, 12:38 pm

That does seem a rather bizarre way at looking at coffee!

I've spent a fair mount of money on coffee gear and a lot of time on trying learning to make coffee which tastes good to me, but I want to make good coffee as easily as possible; a challenge is the last thing that I want!

September 17th, 2017, 12:42 pm

What Bill said. I read and read and make a decision then change my mind. I finally realized that being a certain age, with a critically ill hubs that I might not want another challenge in my life. But I would like the capability to pull a good espresso or latte here at home. The question remains, what now?

September 17th, 2017, 2:51 pm

Robin, being a certain age myself with lots to do, I understand. Good equipment will make it much easier, and I don't think you have to spend thousands if you read the Buying Advice forum or if you contact one of the equipment vendors listed in our Resources section.

I don't think you even need to make espresso to brew a tasty milk drink with concentrated coffee. I just made a moka pot of a home-roasted Brazilian coffee where that method emphasized the sweetness in a roast that got too far into caramelization so it was less sweet and more bread-like. I could have added warm milk or frothed microfoam using a French press without too much challenge. (It was good enough to drink black.) I think the "challenge" part can be a welcome hobbyist's distraction from more serious concerns, but I like that challenge to be engagement with what I'm brewing, not with getting my gear to cooperate.

September 17th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Thank you, Gary. Got the Moka pot and the French Press. I guess my next mission for the time being is finding the right coffee. Seems I'll be searching the site for those recommendations.

September 17th, 2017, 3:32 pm

slipchuck wrote:does having such [the best] equipment take the "challenge" out of making excellent espresso?

Yes; and it's a good thing. Freud once said he cured the fake suffering of neuroses so that people could get on with their real suffering. The challenges of entry level equipment (and entry level skills) distract from the real challenge of getting the best out of each coffee. More importantly, the entry level challenges are mostly a PITA; whereas the real challenges are fun.

Renaissance painters used absurdly labor intensive gear compared to contemporary ones. They produced great paintings because they spent their first five years crushing pigments and stretching canvasses for the masters, and the next five painting in the backgrounds and other low profile parts of a work. Lousy gear might be a kind of apprenticeship even today; but I'm fairly sure a reincarnated renaissance master would have prefer modern art supplies.

#18: Post by **Charlene** » September 17th, 2017, 5:33 pm

The technology of coffee will keep me occupied for years to come. I am far far more interested and engaged in view of my present equipment list than I ever was with my entry level equipment: A la Pavoni Pisa SBDU pressurized portafilter espresso machine and companion Rocky Doserless grinder.

slipchuck wrote:For people who are at their "pinnacle" of buying the best you can afford, does having such equipment take the "challenge" out of making excellent espresso?
Each time I make a shot I need to challenge myself and my equipment to get an excellent espresso. Does that "rush" leave when you are able to get consistently great results?

Any thoughts welcomed!

Thanks

Randy

#19: Post by **drgary** » September 17th, 2017, 7:13 pm

robin416 wrote:Thank you, Gary. Got the Moka pot and the French Press. I guess my next mission for the time being is finding the right coffee. Seems I'll be searching the site for those recommendations.

I know this is a bit off topic, but given Robin's situation I thought I would provide some quick links. If a moka pot is sufficient for you, you'll still need a good grinder. If just using a moka pot, something like a Baratza Encore will do, and these are available refurbed on their website. Espresso will require a much better grinder -- in that case see the Buying Advice forum. An AeroPress can give you much more temperature control and still make a concentrated brew. You would heat the water using a food thermometer to find the desired brew temperature for the coffee. The Baratza Encore would still be sufficient for that.

Here's a link to use of a moka pot that doesn't burn the coffee. I grind a bit finer than drip, fill the moka pot to just under the safety valve and fill the basket with coffee. And, a variant I like for a cleaner cup is to wet an AeroPress filter and put it over the screen (not inside the screen) before screwing on the top. When coffee reaches the crease in my 6 cup Bialetti, I dip the bottom in a bowl of cool water to immediately stop brewing.

Here's a video about using a French press for making microfoam good enough for latte art. Of course a good espresso machine will do that if you look at our Buying Advice forum.

A list of favorite roasters is on this page.

#20: Post by **robin416** » September 17th, 2017, 7:26 pm

drgary wrote:I know this is a bit off topic, but given Robin's situation I thought I would provide some quick links. If a moka pot is sufficient for you, you'll still need a good grinder. If just using a moka pot, something like a Baratza Encore will do, and these are available refurbed on their website. Espresso will require a much better grinder -- in that case see the Buying Advice forum. An AeroPress can give you much more temperature control and still make a concentrated brew. You would heat the water using a food thermometer to find the desired brew temperature for the coffee. The Baratza Encore would still be sufficient for that.

Here's a link to use of a moka pot that doesn't burn the coffee. I grind a bit finer than drip, fill the moka pot to just under the safety valve and fill the basket with coffee. And, a variant I like for a cleaner cup is to wet an AeroPress filter and put it over the screen (not inside the screen) before screwing on the top. When coffee reaches the crease in my 6 cup Bialetti, I dip the bottom in a bowl of cool water to immediately stop brewing.

Here's a video about using a French press for making microfoam good enough for latte art. Of course a good espresso machine will do that if you look at our Buying Advice forum.

<video>

A list of favorite roasters is on this page.

Thank you again. Not sure if the Moka is going to be good enough in the long run but for now knowing the best way to use it will suffice.