As a Linea Mini owner I'm a little surprised too that there have not been more people posting about the machine. But it's not because they are not being sold. I spoke with the people at Clive and they are almost sold out of their original shipment. So clearly some people are buying them.

Regarding some of the comments I have to strongly disagree. The Mini is not a feature oriented machine. If you want maximum features for minimum price go buy something else. The Mini is for the user who wants consistently excellent espresso (and milk based drinks) with minimum fuss in a simple high-quality package that will serve you well for years to come. All LM machines come at a premium price and not just the Mini - you can get a Vesuvius for way less than a GS3. The value is in the design, testing, quality, and support and not features for money.

The comment about a "real PID" is totally off base. The Linea Mini has a real PID, but it is controlled by a manual wheel (with detents and marked temps) instead of buttons and a digital display. If buttons and a digital display really make you feel that much better by all means go that route, but it is not inherently any more reliable, accurate, or objective. It's like the difference between a digital receiver with buttons and one with a dial - I always liked the ones with dials better. The funny thing to me is that when you look at the forums you see people having all kinds of problems with PID settings on their DB E61 machines. Not an issue with the Linea Mini. I'd rather be pulling great shots then fussing over PID settings.

I understand the desire of some for programmable preinfusion and other "advanced" features but caution you that it doesn't necessarily translate into better espresso and consistency. Consider the recent shootout in which the Profitec 700 beat out the Vesiuvius. Having another variable to play with might give you better results but it can also give you worse results. Heck it's hard enough being consistent with the dose and distribution. But this is what the Linea Mini forces you to do and if you do that much right you get consistently great shots. That's what I like about it. As Chris Tacy said the machine makes the focus on the coffee and barista and to me that's what it should be all about. I also find it interesting that all the actual users of the Mini have had very positive things to say about it and the only negative comments seem to come from people who haven't used it.

I wonder if part of the reason there may not be as much user experience being posted about the Mini is precisely because the machine is very simple and besides making great espresso there really isn't a whole lot else to say about it. Aside from the integrated brew group there is nothing novel about it.

I think what would be more interesting than additional user experience would be some head to head comparisons between the Mini and an E61 DB or the commercial Linea. Would love to see HB conduct some tests.

LM's Linea Mini is far from the first PID controlled Machine, that the manufacture has chosen another type of adjustment mechanisms for. In the commercial graded range it is still not uncommon, for example Many of elektras Machine dos not have a Display, even though all of them are PID controlled, the differences is just that these are HX machines, so you rarely change temp.

It's just that so many of us home users have become so used to those digital displays, that many of us find it a bit odd not to add one.

Personally I kind of find it silly, to try to hide the fact, that the Linea Mini is PID controlled. That the machine has it's fair share of advanced electronics, and No I just don't see a PID ruining it's appearance, a PID display dos not have to look cheap with red digits, Profitec and Quickmill has already proven so, with their machines, the pro 700 and M58/Vetrano 2B Evo. And I'm sure LM could have come up with better design than those, that would have followed it clean and classic design. But I'm sure the LM will be a massive seller none the less.

Having owned a machine with a potentiometer for adjustment, I just don't see it as good decision, these will eventually loose the markings, and what where 199f when you first got the machine, will eventually move. And another problem is that you do not have a very precise or good reference mark that you can write down, if you swap between coffees, this will result in wast, not a problem if you rarely do it, and mostly drink the same coffee. But for someone like me this is essential as I do rarely drink more then 250g of the same coffee at a time, so the last thing I'll need is unnecessary waste.

And as I have mentioned earlier on, you can not adjust a PID correctly for all locations at the factory, you'll need to do this at the specific location to get the machine to perform the best. Although I'm sure LM have done their best, and is properly more accurate then any db-e61pid, I'm not sure my relatively colder climate with higher humidity, at almost ocean level is what LM had mine when they chose the PID settings back in Italy.

keno wrote:If buttons and a digital display really make you feel that much better by all means go that route, but it is not inherently any more reliable, accurate, or objective

If you never mess with the stock configuration, that might be true to some degree, but you can improve a machines performance and reliability by changing those parameters, so two identical machine, one with a display you can make it to perform better and more accurately then one without - resulting in a higher consistency.

and If LM somehow forget too set up the parameters correctly, you'll end up with a somehow less then ideal temperature stable machine, that needs to be shipped back to someone who can set it up correctly, with a display you do not have to.

And for this price range at least they could have tossed in a better preinfusion design, instead of the 2sec. prewetting.

And I'm not really complain about lack of features, more some of the design choices like the temperature control and "preinfusion" If I wanted a features stuck machine the Vesuvius would be the machine to get.

Here is a user review video that recently appeared on YouTube:

La Marzocco Linea Mini Worth the Price

malling wrote:Personally I kind of find it silly, to try to hide the fact, that the Linea Mini is PID controlled.

I don't think they are trying to hide that, it's just that they wanted the machine to be more of an analog machine. Hence a physical switch to activate the brew and the dial for the PID.

malling wrote:Having owned a machine with a potentiometer for adjustment, I just don't see it as good decision, these will eventually loose the markings, and what where 199f when you first got the machine, will eventually move.

In about 40-50 years the markings may wear off (you don't touch them), but an LCD would have burned out long before that. Either type of electronic control can fail, but at least LM will be around to provide parts.

malling wrote:And as I have mentioned earlier on, you can not adjust a PID correctly for all locations at the factory, you'll need to do this at the specific location to get the machine to perform the best.

Maybe so, but the factory settings are factory settings for a reason. Unless someone has a Scace thermofilter or there is something seriously wrong with the temperature on their machine (and I mean like WAY off), then they have no business messing with the settings and have no real clue what they are doing when they make changes. To get any machine to perform best you need two things: repeatable adjustability and the taste experience to know what changes to make - otherwise you're shooting in the dark. The Linea Mini allows users to make easy temperature changes by taste.

malling wrote:And for this price range at least they could have tossed in a better preinfusion design, instead of the 2sec. prewetting.

How do you know that some other preinfusion design would be better? Just because longer preinfusion may work better on some other machine does not mean it would on this machine. I'm pretty confident that LM did sufficient testing of the design and compared this to other options along with the impact on taste. In any case, I am finding that the results I get from this machine speak to their success.

I have an inbound Linea Mini, purchased recently from Clive coffee. I'd be happy to post impressions, thoughts and photos when it arrives and I've familiarized myself with it.

I did have the chance to play with one at a couple LM events here in SF. The back to back events had about 12 people in each, and the machine pulled back to back shots and milk duties easily and with aplomb.

From my limited time with it, what I enjoyed was that the machine got out of the way, so to speak. I could adjust the grind and dose by taste, knowing that the machine would do its thing- and the exact same thing- every single time with minimal fuss. Also, did I mention it's a beast at steaming? Best microfoam I've ever made on my first shot at it. Looking forward to receiving it soon!

brencho wrote:I have an inbound Linea Mini, purchased recently from Clive coffee. I'd be happy to post impressions, thoughts and photos when it arrives and I've familiarized myself with it.

Congrats Brent! Let us know what you think when you get it. Glad you had a chance to try one out beforehand.

I don't think they are trying to hide that, it's just that they wanted the machine to be more of an analog machine.

if you want a digitally controlled machine, to have an experience like an analog you'r basically hiding what it is.

The fact it's not an analog machine why try so hard making it appear as such.

And I doubt the marking or for that matter any electronic part made for a espresso machine in 2014/2015 would last for 30-40 years, no matter how well made it is. But even if it only last 10years it's hardly a problem, these should be an easy and relatively cheap replacement, just like a digitally display is not the most expensive part in a machine or very complicated to replace. but it's not as cheap as a wheel, but then if you can afford a linea Mini you can afford a PID display. Besides many machines out there back from the first edition with PID, still works, so I doubt reliability og longevity is really an issue with these. And for one I do not believe I will ever own anything for 30-40 years, I'll be surprised if I'll ever own any machine for 10.

keno wrote:How do you know that some other preinfusion design would be better? Just because longer preinfusion may work better on some other machine does not mean it would on this machine. I'm pretty confident that LM did sufficient testing of the design and compared this to other options along with the impact on taste. In any case, I am finding that the results I get from this machine speak to their success.

I never seen, experienced or heard of 2sec preinfusion doing much of anything on a tank driven pump machine, at best it soaks only the top layer of the puck and/or mute the flavors, so if they have manage to do where others have failed I must say I'm impressed - but I'm very skeptical. Besides I just prefer if I want preinfusion or not. After all they put in a paddle it wouldn't be to hard for them to give us that, and I'm sure it's going to be one of the favorite mods down the line.

Maybe so, but the factory settings are factory settings for a reason. Unless someone has a Scace thermofilter or there is something seriously wrong with the temperature on their machine (and I mean like WAY off), then they have no business messing with the settings and have no real clue what they are doing when they make changes. To get any machine to perform best you need two things: repeatable adjustability and the taste experience to know what changes to make - otherwise you're shooting in the dark. The Linea Mini allows users to make easy temperature changes by taste

I do not encourage people to mess with settings they do not understand. But it's a nice choice to have for those who do, and who actually own a Scace.
Again if something is seriously wrong with temperature (and yes it dos happen) it's not that hard to dial in the right nr. on the display, if these has not been set up correctly, and it only needs to be slightly off for it to has a less then disable impact. You do not have that choice, you'll need to ship it back and risk all sorts of things on the way back and forth.

And it's not rocket science. Don't make it harder then it really is.

To get any machine to perform best you need two things: repeatable adjustability and the taste experience to know what changes to make - otherwise you're shooting in the dark. The Linea Mini allows users to make easy temperature changes by taste

Yes I agree, if it work as it should, on a PID, meaning it's calibrate correctly. with a PID not calibrated correctly and you'll end up shooting in the dark.

cute video by the way, and it indeed looks like a very well made machine.

Let's answer the question posed... its a expensive machine in a niche market , up against a gs3 and a slayer ( above it ) .
There are i suspect more slayer owners they people who care to post on related coffee forums also...

I don't think it's surprising that few owners have posted Mini reviews yet. And that's not a direct indication of units sold, either.

I suspect the simple answer is many owners might not be HB members. Not everyone interested in home espresso belongs to a coffee forum. Or, even in if they are a member, they may not post often.

The Mini's analog design ethos also appeals to a certain clientele. People who like quality, have to money to spend on quality, but want a no fuss, no tinkering, no home espresso lab approach to coffee, will be drawn to the Mini. There are also people like us who find it appealing, but we're not the only demographic, maybe not even the primary target demographic for La Marzocco.

I don't know how many machines have been sold. But just because only a few HB members have confirmed ownership, that doesn't necessarily equate to low ownership.

Also, as we all know, HB members are typically obsessive over their equipment. Meaning they don't rush out and buy a $4,000 machine on a whim. We first try every possible mod on our existing machine to make it a one of a kind science experiment. We'd also rather fix something or fabricate a custom part to keep an old, but beloved machine running.

And then when it finally comes time to upgrade, we keep our old machine as a backup, and then we start a new HB thread about our quest for espresso nirvana. We then solicit advice from all four corners of the earth, and scour the net for every possible review and user experience of the machine we're considering buying. If a machine is new to the market, such as the Mini, this process takes even longer, since few people have had hands on experience to rigorously test it and tinker.

This will change over time as more people use the machine.

I for one think it's a great machine. I haven't used one. But I can appreciate the idea of simplicity and lack of gadgetry.

CCG +1. This machine is not mainly aimed at hobbyists, although LM will be happy to sell to them.