Why are 25 gram baskets not popular?

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Ursego

#1: Post by Ursego »

Hi all!
As you know, the classic is the 18 gr basket. It is the one that appears in most espresso videos. Sometimes a 21 gr basket is mentioned. But why isn't the 25gr basket common? Using a 1:2 ratio, I could get 50 gr of espresso instead of 36 gr with the same time and effort. That idea seems appealing, but no one ever talks about 25 gr baskets. Maybe there are some technical reasons or pitfalls that make 25 gr doses problematic?

Maybe this dosage requires more pressure for the same grind size (while the pressure is not easily adjustable on all machines)? Or, for the same pressure, this dosage requires a coarser grind, resulting in the same extraction surface as a smaller basket, which makes the innovation pointless?

What do you think about it? Are there anyone here who uses a 25 gr basket?

I am still using 18 gr, but want to switch to 25 gr.

Thank you!

Nunas
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#2: Post by Nunas »

I can think of two reasons, the first being tradition. For many years now, the 18 g double has been the standard, at least in North America. Nearly all machines come with an 18 gram basket, probably all the ubiquitous e61 machines. The second reason would be that most triple baskets will not fit into the portafilters supplied with most machines. To use a triple basket, one needs a bottomless portafilter. Not everyone wants this as their daily driver, certainly not those folks who like to pull splits. Cafelat apparently has a convertible PF, which I believe will take a triple basket, with or without the double spout. A 25 g basket is even bigger than a standard triple (~22 g), and might not even fit into the Cafelat PF.

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HB
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#3: Post by HB »

Some reasons that come to mind: a) they don't fit most portafilters, b). you'll go through a lot more coffee, c) the taste profile is typically "in your face" type ristrettos. And I suppose d) if you did pull a true double, it wouldn't even fit in a demitasse (unless split in two). FWIW, I have a 22 gram basket and rarely use it.
Dan Kehn

baldheadracing
Team HB

#4: Post by baldheadracing »

Ursego wrote:What do you think about it? Are there anyone here who uses a 25 gr basket?
25g implies an awfully thick puck. The coffee will taste different as a result. Whether better or worse depends on the coffee and your tastes. (I only use my 25g for EKSpresso, so a quite different drink.)
Nunas wrote:... Cafelat apparently has a convertible PF, which I believe will take a triple basket, with or without the double spout. A 25 g basket is even bigger than a standard triple (~22 g), and might not even fit into the Cafelat PF.
FWIW, the VST 25g (ridgeless) fits in the Cafelat convertible PF with spouts installed.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

gobucks

#5: Post by gobucks »

25g is a very big dose, 1.78x a standard italian 14g dose, and 1.38x a standard north american 18g dose. I'm guessing the majority of home users want to drink multiple coffees throughout the day, and a 25g dose means that third (or fourth) cup might really be pushing the limit on caffeine. If you're looking for maximum caffeination in as few cups as possible (i.e. you want to slam some coffee on your way out the door for work), then go nuts, a 25g basket and a bottomless portafilter should work fine. You will have to grind a lot coarser, though, which will make it taste different.

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Ursego (original poster)

#6: Post by Ursego (original poster) »

baldheadracing wrote:25g implies an awfully thick puck. The coffee will taste different as a result.
Yes, this is a problem. The higher the puck, the greater the chance of unevenness. And if uneven moistening can be compensated by a longer pre-infusion, nothing can be done about the unevenness of tamping: the upper layers will be tamped strongly, and the lower ones - weakly. Of course, this problem exists in the 18-gram pack as well, but the higher the tablet, the more serious the problem.

Nevertheless, many machines with a 54 mm portafilter, which of course has a higher tablet (La Pavoni, La Spaziale, etc.), are considered very good.

Perhaps I should consider 22 grams rather than 25.

baldheadracing
Team HB

#7: Post by baldheadracing »

Some manufacturers believe that the optimal flavour for a Neapolitan (double) espresso uses 12g-14g of coffee in a 53mm/54mm basket, and thus, a greater bed depth than 12g-14g in a 58mm basket. (No traditional bar in Italy is using an 18g dose.)

With the 25g basket, you can always dose half the coffee, tamp, then dose the rest, and tamp again.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

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yakster
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#8: Post by yakster » replying to baldheadracing »

You might want to even put a filter between the two doses. Paper filter in the middle of the puck
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

spopinski

#9: Post by spopinski »

And here I am still using 7 and 14... Smh

mathof

#10: Post by mathof »

gobucks wrote:If you're looking for maximum caffeination in as few cups as possible (i.e. you want to slam some coffee on your way out the door for work), then go nuts, a 25g basket and a bottomless portafilter should work fine. You will have to grind a lot coarser, though, which will make it taste different.
I thought VST baskets were designed to maintain the same grind setting throughout the range, as long as you stick to the nominal doses.