malling wrote:Yes I owned and used more burrs then what is probably sane, and cupped them. But I always done it with mainly light roast so should always be seen in that context.

I owned anything from small hand conical to large conical grinders, from 54mm to 98mm flat burr grinders. And changing burr when ever something new came along was kinda my thing

Yeah those differences are just how it works and I totally agree. With lighter roasts conicals won't do nearly a good a job as flat burrs. With dark roasts conicals give massive body and mouthfeel and superior shots. Unimodal burrs just work great for light roasts but do a lesser job at dark roasts compared to bimodal flat burrs.

But I don't agree with taking an E61 as the benchmark to compare. When you have a big flat unimodal burr grinder and use great light roasts then you should also have a capable machine and that isn't a E61. With an E61 you just can't do a proper extraction with those parameters as the machine is by far the limiting factor. That's like tuning a car and giving it twice the power and upgrade suspension but still keep the stock crappy brakes.

I love that Niche has listened and lowered the prices especially taking out VAT for outside the UK. I'd still love to have both carriers but not for espresso/filter but just to change burrs for espresso from unimodal to bimodal. For me that's worth the extra 100 and I'm still in the game for the Duo as my second grinder next to the EG-1.


Mod note: split from Niche Duo 83mm flat burr grinder

erik82 wrote:Yeah those differences are just how it works and I totally agree. With lighter roasts conicals won't do nearly a good a job as flat burrs. With dark roasts conicals give massive body and mouthfeel and superior shots. Unimodal burrs just work great for light roasts but do a lesser job at dark roasts compared to bimodal flat burrs.

But I don't agree with taking an E61 as the benchmark to compare. When you have a big flat unimodal burr grinder and use great light roasts then you should also have a capable machine and that isn't a E61. With an E61 you just can't do a proper extraction with those parameters as the machine is by far the limiting factor. That's like tuning a car and giving it twice the power and upgrade suspension but still keep the stock crappy brakes.

I love that Niche has listened and lowered the prices especially taking out VAT for outside the UK. I'd still love to have both carriers but not for espresso/filter but just to change burrs for espresso from unimodal to bimodal. For me that's worth the extra 100 and I'm still in the game for the Duo as my second grinder next to the EG-1.

I didn't write E61... I specifically said pump profile that is a rather broad definition.

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It tend to mute the shots compared to like other pump machines like LM for example. I do think the other poster however exaggerated the effect. I got shot with an EK and E61 with same coffee that beat far more capable machines including LM, slayer, synesso etc. So while I do think it's limited and my F58 delivers far better shots, is not like you cannot pull good light on it, if that is what one experience then the fault mainly lies at the user end not the machine.

But yes you can get more out of light with other machines.

No Niche Duo is first out next month

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Put pressure and flow capabilities on any machine and it help. People modded their Linea Mini and it delivered better shots, so obviously also applies to E61. That said Linea Mini definitely make better shot in stock configuration then an E61 DB dos, but it's also far more costly machine. If I where going with a DB I'll get the Linea Micra not that much more expensive, smaller and shot quality is very good.

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Cuprajake wrote:What's wrong with e61 machines?

Even that's quite broad as the e61 is on sbdu, hx and dual boiler configuration

The thing that's wrong with it is that it has it's limitations in terms of shot quality. It's an old design that has seen it's best days in terms of modern light roasts and higher extractions as it's just not that capable compared to pulling oldschool Italian roasts. Even the Bianca which has all the bells and whistles just can't keep up with my Strietman CT1. I was set on buying one but oh boy was I cured after using one a full day with my own grinder and beans. Modern machines with saturated groups just seem to extract a lot better.

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IMO, nothing. An e61 in the hands of a skilled barista makes excellent shots.

But then, I use tube amps, eschew ice or water in my Islay whiskies, drive old cars because I detest gimcrackery and had my first espresso the year e61 entered first grade.