Weber Moonraker? - Page 19

#181: Post by **BaristaBob** » May 24th, 2023, 11:50 am

I'm beginning to see how the Moonraker is different than any other WDT on the market. I'm not about to justify the price, but then again people still pay $200 for the ONA OCD distribution tool...so I'll just let that be. As for the Moonraker, we have a device with a non-orbital needle path, 10 needles of different lengths and diameters. No doubt, some of these properties might be covered in the patent application.

#182: Post by **barri** » May 25th, 2023, 11:18 pm

BaristaBob wrote:I'm beginning to see how the Moonraker is different than any other WDT on the market.

Not quite

https://www.printables.com/model/481587 ... o-wdt-tool
https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1460083 ... ch_click=1

I had the first one printed and it does a great job, so much so that I've put my old manual tool in the drawer.

#183: Post by **NewCoffeeGuy1** » May 25th, 2023, 11:20 pm

I'm still playing with the number of rotations. I concur that by 5 (full) rotations it's probably good to go, though I usually do more because it's easy and pretty quick so why not right?

#184: Post by **BaristaBob** » May 26th, 2023, 12:11 am

NewCoffeeGuy1 wrote:I'm still playing with the number of rotations. I concur that by 5 (full) rotations it's probably good to go, though I usually do more because it's seats and pretty quick so why not right?

Well...normally I'd agree with "more is better", but there is this little thing in colloid chemistry about electrostatic attraction. Though I don't have any specific data on fine ground coffee particles, somewhere on the "more" continuum the electrostatic phenomena will build to a point where fine particles will start to clump. At this point you should see channeling and faster extraction times. If this were to happen just back off a few spins...should be easy to optimize, and may be different depending on roast level, and/or grind size.

#185: Post by **acg** » May 26th, 2023, 2:05 am

barri wrote:Not quite

https://www.printables.com/model/481587 ... o-wdt-tool
https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1460083 ... ch_click=1

I had the first one printed and it does a great job, so much so that I've put my old manual tool in the drawer.

I actually bought the 3d printed Etsy WDT tool. It works well but the feeling is very different. The heft and the attention to details of the Moonraker make me feeling less foolish for paying this much for a WDT tool.

#186: Post by **Capuchin Monk** » May 26th, 2023, 1:35 pm

acg wrote:The heft and the attention to details of the Moonraker make me feeling less foolish for paying this much

There was a time when one of the consumer goods judging criteria was the weight. For example, some high-end audio amplifiers were built with oversized transformer for the extra headroom on the specs and that made the amplifier heavy. Some manufactures decided to exploit that by adding a metal plate in the amplifier while using some mediocre transformer. It worked for a while because the product reviewers commented on how heavy the amplifier is. Many consumers bought it until someone opened it up and saw the metal plate and not the big beefy transformer.

The moral of the story is, ... (I'll let the readers fill in).

#187: Post by **BaristaBob** » May 26th, 2023, 2:09 pm

^^^ moral...Don't judge a book by its cover?!

In the that case, the Moonraker is an open book!!

The heft is there to push the grinds around, not the other way around.

#188: Post by **acg** » May 26th, 2023, 5:24 pm

Capuchin Monk wrote:There was a time when one of the consumer goods judging criteria was the weight. For example, some high-end audio amplifiers were built with oversized transformer for the extra headroom on the specs and that made the amplifier heavy. Some manufactures decided to exploit that by adding a metal plate in the amplifier while using some mediocre transformer. It worked for a while because the product reviewers commented on how heavy the amplifier is. Many consumers bought it until someone opened it up and saw the metal plate and not the big beefy transformer.

The moral of the story is, ... (I'll let the readers fill in).

In the case of moonraker, the weight increase the friction with the basket, and makes it possible to operate with one hand.

#189: Post by **Capuchin Monk** » May 26th, 2023, 6:50 pm

BaristaBob wrote:^^^ moral...Don't judge a book by its cover?!

by its cover weight.
FIFY.

#190: Post by **Primacog** » May 27th, 2023, 6:24 am

On the other hand greater weight of thr moonraker increases friction and the more inefficient method of turning tbe needles whereby one turns it by turning rhe dial of the device itself means that one has to expend more effort and take up more time to achieve the same number of turns.

The etsy device from CoffeetoolsCA on the other hand is lighter but it has a more efficient spinning motion because the needles are spun by a handle that is whipped around by your finger. Though it doesn't have the fit and finish of the moonraker, ut does have the same randomised motion as the moonraker and costs only 1/10 /the cost of the moonraker. As a result I suspect the etsy device actually performs better than the moonraker though the moonraker will have a psychologically far more favourable effect.

On the other hand I believe manual wdt with needles when done well will always give the best results compared to any such semi automatic tool.