WAFO baskets - Page 2

#11: Post by **PIXIllate** » November 16th, 2022, 7:14 pm

That's just a tad too much puckology for my tastes.

#12: Post by **Brien** » November 16th, 2022, 8:59 pm

I have been actively looking forward to a... unibasket, as it were.

#13: Post by **Spitz.me** » November 16th, 2022, 9:46 pm

What I found odd was the reference to how a metal filter does "the same" as a paper filter. I don't believe that a paper filtered coffee tastes the same as a metal filtered coffee, but he's saying you don't need the paper anymore.

Is the general theory on paper that all it does is increase EY and make your puck look glamorous? I swear it changes the character of the coffee because it's going through paper. Is it just me???

#14: Post by **BaristaBob** » November 16th, 2022, 9:56 pm

HB wrote:I'll give him credit for disclosing right up from that he's a paid promoter:

I agree, as I said up front in my post. I think my head is still spinning at the thought of 3,000 holes!! And people think VST baskets with 700 holes are unforgiving?!

#15: Post by **heytchap** » November 16th, 2022, 10:30 pm

I usually really like Brian's videos, but this one came across as _very_ infomercial-y to me.

#16: Post by **iyayy** » November 16th, 2022, 11:13 pm

i assume 2 possibilities,
1. the common 'rule' is light roasts are hard to extract, and usually used with 2.5~3 ratio.. being able to grind finer may allow 1:2, 1.5 or less..
however at same time, it'll probably only be useful to pull a 0.5 dark roast..
2. just like many who do 6 bar, turbos, spros, etc and also higher yield, they'll have to grind coarser.. i think this would be a more relevant use case to allow smaller yield and more concentrated shots..

personally i have no idea why not just do french press, aeropress, hario switch, heck maybe picopresso or those ultra portables.. u can get pretty much high concentration shots with minimal cost and footprint, without the need to wait 30mins for machine warm up time.. and bring it with you travelling and making shots.
i mean with the pressure it runs turbos may not be so different than aeropress, or easily doable with picopresso.. i might be wrong,
but i dont see the point of having 9 bar device and do 2-3 bar shots.. lots of waste of money, energy and effort there..

its like choosing to boil water with kettle, stove, microwave, campfire.. end of the day u just want hot water. why makes things complicated and expensive?

November 17th, 2022, 12:00 am

iyayy wrote:why makes things complicated and expensive?

If I recall (from my school years), it's called "marketing".

#18: Post by **Brien** » November 17th, 2022, 12:20 am

Spitz.me wrote:What I found odd was the reference to how a metal filter does "the same" as a paper filter. I don't believe that a paper filtered coffee tastes the same as a metal filtered coffee, but he's saying you don't need the paper anymore.

Is the general theory on paper that all it does is increase EY and make your puck look glamorous? I swear it changes the character of the coffee because it's going through paper. Is it just me???

The paper is for even puck extraction, so I'd say the filtration is undesirable here. Gagne did a whole write-up IIRC, think he also did a video with Lance Hedrick talking about it.

#19: Post by **malling** » November 17th, 2022, 6:18 am

iyayy wrote:i assume 2 possibilities,
1. the common 'rule' is light roasts are hard to extract, and usually used with 2.5~3 ratio.. being able to grind finer may allow 1:2, 1.5 or less..
however at same time, it'll probably only be useful to pull a 0.5 dark roast..
2. just like many who do 6 bar, turbos, spros, etc and also higher yield, they'll have to grind coarser.. i think this would be a more relevant use case to allow smaller yield and more concentrated shots..

personally i have no idea why not just do french press, aeropress, hario switch, heck maybe picopresso or those ultra portables.. u can get pretty much high concentration shots with minimal cost and footprint, without the need to wait 30mins for machine warm up time.. and bring it with you travelling and making shots.
i mean with the pressure it runs turbos may not be so different than aeropress, or easily doable with picopresso.. i might be wrong,
but i dont see the point of having 9 bar device and do 2-3 bar shots.. lots of waste of money, energy and effort there..

its like choosing to boil water with kettle, stove, microwave, campfire.. end of the day u just want hot water. why makes things complicated and expensive?

Turbos don't exactly taste like any of the mentioned drinks, so it has its reasons to exist, while I do enjoy turbos I cannot exactly same thing about of concentrated brews. I really dislike concentrated Aeropress and Aeropress don't do much pressure at all, even with the special filter and hammer it, the result is quite undesirable to say the least, I think Hoffmann came to much the same conclusions.

9bar typically don't do any good with lighter roast I always peak around 6-7bar max pressure, 9 bar is from a time with dark like very dark roast often filled with robusta and coffee sitting in a doser. I honestly don't get why we hang onto that as it's rather unnecessary amount of pressure, many home levers don't even do more then 6 bar. I honestly see little gains in trying to get 1:1.5-2 drinks out of light, I never found such short pulls being even remotely as interesting as +1:2.5 no matter how it was achieved the longer pulls where always better.

Paper is done for more even extraction and we can remove that waste I honestly think it's a good thing, eventually that basket will earn itself home if it can remove the need for that.

#20: Post by **BaristaBob** » November 17th, 2022, 7:13 am

malling wrote: Paper is done for more even extraction and we can remove that waste I honestly think it's a good thing, eventually that basket will earn itself home if it can remove the need for that.

And just like you said, there are many ways to approach an espresso beverage, be it changing grind, time, pressure, volume, etc. Personally, if these new baskets allow me to use less coffee it could offset the recent price increases, which would earn it a place on my coffee bar.

As for the cost of these "super" baskets, like top puck screens, competition in the marketplace will cause the pricing to find a suitable bottom. Hopefully more in the $100 range, but time will tell.

Edit: Just performed a back of the envelope calculation based on my current espresso consumption and average cost of my coffee beans...based on moving from 18g to 17g in the PF, that's a $60 savings per year (three bags)...now that's tangible.