Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo fails to reach setpoint. PID settings?

#1: Post by **robmack** » July 28th, 2021, 6:28 pm

I own a Quick Mill Vetrano 2B Evo from 2020. I have set the target brew boiler temperature to 94°C and the steam bolier temperature to 126°C. I let the machine warm up for 15 -20 minutes before making an Espresso. I notice that rarely does the indicated temperature reach the setpoint. It normally hovers around 92°C or 93°C. It also takes a while to reach that temperature. Below are all the current PID settings:

f.01 - ° C (display in °C or °F)
f.02 - 6 - 4 = 15A service, 6 = 20A service
p1 - 1.5 - "P" variable for brew boiler
i1 - 0 - "I" variable for brew boiler
d1 - 1.5 - "D" variable for brew boiler
b1 - 25 - "B" variable for brew boiler; not sure what this controls
p2 - 1.5 - "P" variable for steam boiler
i2 - 0 - "I" variable for steam boiler
d2 - 1.5 - "D" variable for steam boiler
b2 - 6 - "B" variable for steam boiler; not sure what this controls
e1 - 15 - temperature offset for brew boiler; calibrated at factory
e2 - 0 - temperature offset for steam boiler; calibrated at factory
t1 - 94 - setpoint for brew temperature
t2 - 126 - setpoint for steam temperature

I'm wondering if there are alternate values to give P1, I1, D1 and B1 than what I have? I'm looking for a better response time, a quicker time to reach temperature.

#2: Post by **Jeff** » July 28th, 2021, 7:26 pm

An E61 group will take around 30-40 minutes to stabilize. The PID on the boiler can't really overcome the thermodynamics of several pounds of brass hanging out in the breeze.

You're probably better off tuning the PID to handle the small disturbances of pulling a shot.

#3: Post by **cafeIKE** » July 29th, 2021, 1:47 pm

robmack wrote:I'm wondering if there are alternate values to give P1, I1, D1 and B1 than what I have? I'm looking for a better response time, a quicker time to reach temperature.

Use a towel or two to speed warm up. My Vibiemmes take about 45 minutes for the group to reach temperature, about 15 w towels.

Unless there is an offset in the PID, 94°C is low for an e61 DB. All machines are different, but I run 104°C boiler for 93°C brew.

When posting PID params it helps to know what values other than P, I & D control. If b is offset, the 6 would give 100°C brew set point, still a bit low IMO. It's odd that brew and steam boilers have the same PID params, which look a bit weird in either case.

July 30th, 2021, 3:18 pm

Thanks for the suggestion about towels.

Yes, there is an offset. It's the E1 variable. Currently it's set to 15 meaning 15°C difference between brew boiler temperature and group temperature. Both E1 and E2 are calibrated at the factory with a Scace device so it's best not to change them.

I updated the first post to indicate the meanings of the various PID settings. Sorry I missed doing that in the first place.

#5: Post by **cafeIKE** » July 31st, 2021, 2:15 pm

robmack wrote: Both E1 and E2 are calibrated at the factory with a Scace device so it's best not to change them.

The Vetrano brew sensor is in the boiler.
Unfortunately, on an e61, unless the sensor is in the group, the offset is wishful thinking.

A slight breeze, air con, etc. can drop the group temperature a couple of degrees. Ambient temperature has an effect. I run my boiler 1°C hotter in winter than in summer.

Mostly, boiler temperature is adjusted by taste. When I wanna know, I rely on Eric's group thermometer... or the Scace if I'm not too lazy to go find it... and the meter...

Temperature sensor for E-61 Grouphead @ site sponsor Espressocare