"Turpresso"? Turkish coffee with an espresso machine. - Page 5

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vit
Posts: 993
Joined: 9 years ago

#41: Post by vit »

Sides of the puck are not perfect due to basket modification. I cut off the badly designed original bottom, replaced it with bottom of ordinary (though inexpensive) basket and sealed it with silicone, which also made it slightly tapered, but wasn't able to make it perfect by hand. However, it doesn't seem to make problems with extraction, unlike original bottom which was de facto causing channeling through the center of the basket. It looks like eventually designer of Flair machines realized that as well and improved things in later versions



I used a piece of filter paper above the puck (visible on the photo of spent puck) and Flair puck screen pushed onto the paper

Yes, lever machines are nice that you can make adjustments by the feel, but I think this should be possible to emulate and probably get even better results with DE1. For my first attempt, equivalent on the machine with commercial size double basket and similar coffee/grind would be around 0.6 ml/s flow for preinfusion and limit at 2 bar or less. However, puck preparation would be more demanding. LM single "chamber in chamber" basket would be probably better solution, in that case with preinfusion flow similar like in my case, around 0.27 ml/s (maybe a bit more or less, because of differences in volume of air in brew chamber and so different resulting flow into the puck)

jpender
Posts: 3898
Joined: 12 years ago

#42: Post by jpender »

vit wrote:ISo making the turpresso doesn't make much sense, although similar result is obtainable like with classical turkish method
We already knew it didn't make much sense. But what does it mean to say it is "similar"? It's a balanced cup of coffee of the same approximate volume and strength but it tastes noticeably different.

vit
Posts: 993
Joined: 9 years ago

#43: Post by vit »

Well, in my case, difference in taste actually wasn't that big. After one more comparison today, it looks like there are 2 reasons

- nutty notes in turkish that are absent in my turkpresso seem to be mostly from a lot of fines in turkish coffee. Some may like it, some may not
- turpresso is balanced with some acidity which is mostly absent in turkish coffee. It looks it's at least partially due to lower extraction temperature and it's not possible to go much higher on this device with extraction that long (higher flow is problematic again because higher pressure on grind this fine isn't good ether). It's because on this device, basket is entirely unheated and its bottom part is being warmed up only by flow of the water/coffee. With slow flow, that heat flow is weak so bottom remains considerably colder - reading from the probe seems to be actually quite good indication of what is happening at the bottom (lower than expected readings are not caused only by evaporation of the thin stream), even though it is decreasing considerably slower than I expected

So although this was pure academical, maybe we learned a thing or two ...

jpender
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Joined: 12 years ago

#44: Post by jpender »

The temperature profile doesn't look like a Turkish brew. Immersion and percolation brewing extract differently. Suspended material is likely different. These are all signature aspects of the brewing style. You can also make coffee in an Aeropress that has a similar taste to espresso, similar being the key word.

vit
Posts: 993
Joined: 9 years ago

#45: Post by vit »

Sure. Pretty much all parameters are different. That's why I was surprised that differences were considerably smaller than espresso simulation with Aeropress for instance where I didn't find any similarity in taste

However, question of the thread was about emulating turkish coffee with espresso machine

jpender
Posts: 3898
Joined: 12 years ago

#46: Post by jpender »

vit wrote:...I was surprised that differences were considerably smaller than espresso simulation with Aeropress for instance where I didn't find any similarity in taste
No similarity at all?

I've done it a few times and thought it tasted like a nice, concentrated shot of the same coffee I'd pulled as an espresso shot. Certainly it wasn't identical but there were more similarities than differences.

vit
Posts: 993
Joined: 9 years ago

#47: Post by vit »

Well, different coffee, different recipe, different gear, different taste, different mood ... could explain the difference in my and you perception ...

I think that we all agree it's not possible to make a turkish coffee using espresso machine, question is only how close we can get / can we get good taste that is neither turkish nor espresso, and does it make any sense to do it ...

The same about making an espresso with Aeropress, Brikka etc ...

GDM528 (original poster)
Posts: 846
Joined: 2 years ago

#48: Post by GDM528 (original poster) »

Trying again - just can't quit this beast.

Workflow:
1) Fine-ground 12g of med-light roast by gradually metering in beans, while feeling jealous of other posters that didn't have to do this.
2) Tamped into 58mm basket and topped with filter paper. Total height about 1cm - looked forebodingly wrong in a 18g basket.
3) Pre-wetted puck with about 10g of 90C-ish hot water. Let it slowly soak in for about a minute - after which there was still some water on top.
4) Locked into grouphead and gradually ramped to a couple bars pressure.
5) Nicely dark, thick nectar ensued - but only lasted for about 30 seconds.
6) Blonding kicked in (doesn't get any easier to watch) until I reached 100g in cup - essentially a 'dirty' Americano.
7) Dumped (troweled, actually) the spent grounds into cup. Oh, Yeaah, (bao bao).
7) Espresso-ground another 12g of dark roast, and pulled a normale into the cup.

Really feeling the limitations of my flat-burr grinder and pressure-profiling with a repurposed lamp dimmer...

Was hoping for a lot more crema, but as it rapidly dissipated three spots magically formed in the center of the cup to mark this as my third attempt:



The second shot added more intensity and bitterness, and the grounds added complexity and mouthfeel (duh). It was a serious beverage, with more than a hint of danger at the bottom. Still not really a Turkish, but getting harder to say it's more like something else.

vit
Posts: 993
Joined: 9 years ago

#49: Post by vit »

I also did one more attempt, this time a bit different

First made usual turkish coffee with 4.2 g of same med. roasted blend, ground with Sözen at position 0.8 turns and 33g water (similar like my first control sample). Just the heat was a bit stronger than previous times, so 60 to 97.5°C lasted about 1:30 (still much longer than in recipe used in Balkans where you actually put the coffee into just off the boil water and return it to the heat again until it starts foaming)

Waited about half a minute, then poured it into the Flair basket mounted on the stand. About 3.5g went through into the cup, then stopped. Mounted the cylinder (non preheated) onto the basket, put the piston and in about half minute pressed the rest into the cup with almost zero force

About half of the sediments remained in the csezve (as usual), most of the rest remained in the basket, forming a kind of spent puck about 5 mm thick with surprisingly flat surface (unlike what usually happens in Aeropress), just with 3 cracks - which probably didn't make any issues as the coffee was already extracted

Got about 23 g of filtered turkish coffee in the cup, temperature 55°C, almost too low, and with maybe 2-3% of total sediments

Taste was similar like non-filtered turkish coffee, similar mouthfeel whole cup until the very end, but somehow not as good, something was missing. It looks like sediments in the coffee give some additional notes despite the fact that they really don't taste good in higher amount. Taste wise it was somewhere between ordinary turkish coffee and my previous attempts using low pressure espresso method, it even had very slight amount of acidity


Edit: after another side-by-side comparison of filtered and non-filtered turkish coffee today, I'm not sure there was any difference in taste ... however not much reason to filter it either ...

GDM528 (original poster)
Posts: 846
Joined: 2 years ago

#50: Post by GDM528 (original poster) »

vit wrote:with almost zero force
Fine-ground coffee in an espresso machine has unexpected properties - at least from my perspective. I have occasionally ground for espresso a bit too finely, which choked the puck to point where I couldn't complete the shot. But if I grind way too finely, I can't lower the pressure enough to keep the shot from running away. And with none of the usual signs of channeling. It's as if I've created some sort of colloidal superfluid. Given the limitations of my espresso machine, I think my primary recourse is to keep increasing the amount of grind in the basket.

Also remarkable how well this fine grind falls to the bottom of my cup and stays put. Plenty of mouthfeel and zero grittiness. I have a renewed level of sympathy for the dishwashers at Turkish coffee shops.