Thin, watery shots with Breville Dual Boiler "Slayer mod" - Page 3

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
IMAWriter
Supporter ♡

#21: Post by IMAWriter »

10.5 is exactly what I draw with a blank disk.

I'm obviously of no real help here, as I'm nowhere near the (IMO) drastic settings being discussed here. My PI pressure is 62, time is 4-5 seconds. Doing some non scientific thinking, I cannot see any way THAT particular coffee will not channel with the BDB at those settings. I realize you're going with that specific technique, but as I understand it, it's supposed to yield a sweeter, but less bodied espresso? Can't remember. I'll wager if you threw in maybe a Panama Elida DP, roasted to city/city plus (pulled at the very last couple of pops of 1st, you'd get a better result. Just my .02. Again, I probably don't belong in this conversation...just wanting to help a forum friend!
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

cmin (original poster)

#22: Post by cmin (original poster) »

lancealot wrote:
Another thought, what are you doing for your puck prep? Maybe the BDB is just more demanding in the puck prep area than the other machines you cite?
Water Debit with PI off and knob open for normal flow about 175 so 87.5. I'm pulling Anodynes Atomic Blend.now which I've ordered countless times through years and though pulling better than other beans, with PI the shots were extended towards 50-60 seconds and extremely bitter and mehh even in milk, that was always an amazing blend, I'm getting that chocolate note it's known for but a very harsh bitterness as well. That was with PI at 80 and I forgot I had set time to 30 seconds instead of manual playing around. If I go coarser the shot looks blonder and taste worse, that same thin/watery mouthfeel I keep getting on everything on this machine. Crema thin as well, but not as thin as other beans so far.

Puck prep basically same as always done, rdt before grinding, wdt, leveling tamper etc. 19g dose in EPHQ, not even bothering with VSTs as their completely useless as of now even with the Monolith, just a spraying channeling mess and like 3-4 streams.

Solenoid comes in tomorrow. Thanks for the help!

IMAWriter wrote:10.5 is exactly what I draw with a blank disk.

I'm obviously of no real help here, as I'm nowhere near the (IMO) drastic settings being discussed here. My PI pressure is 62, time is 4-5 seconds. Doing some non scientific thinking, I cannot see any way THAT particular coffee will not channel with the BDB at those settings. I realize you're going with that specific technique, but as I understand it, it's supposed to yield a sweeter, but less bodied espresso? Can't remember. I'll wager if you threw in maybe a Panama Elida DP, roasted to city/city plus (pulled at the very last couple of pops of 1st, you'd get a better result. Just my .02. Again, I probably don't belong in this conversation...just wanting to help a forum friend!
I'm going to play around further, I'm hoping it's the solenoid that's possibly the cause of this.

Decent Espresso: espresso equipment for serious baristas
Sponsored by Decent Espresso
User avatar
lancealot

#23: Post by lancealot »

cmin wrote:Water Debit with PI off and knob open for normal flow about 175 so 87.5.
I don't even know what this means. W.D. is usually expressed in grams per second. If you have 87.5 grams per second of water coming out of your group, that is a problem.
cmin wrote:I'm pulling Anodynes Atomic Blend.now which I've ordered countless times through years and though pulling better than other beans, with PI the shots were extended towards 50-60 seconds and extremely bitter and mehh
I don't know anything about this coffee so I looked it up. Hearing you were pulling it at 50 seconds, I was expecting something uber light and on-trend. I was surprised to see it is a central and south American blend roasted medium/dark. I am not surprised that your 50 second shot of this is bitter. I would expect a 50 second shot of this to be bitter.


cmin (original poster)

#24: Post by cmin (original poster) »

lancealot wrote:I don't even know what this means. W.D. is usually expressed in grams per second. If you have 87.5 grams per second of water coming out of your group, that is a problem.
Oops lol, I meant 5.8

lancealot wrote:
I don't know anything about this coffee so I looked it up. Hearing you were pulling it at 50 seconds, I was expecting something uber light and on-trend. I was surprised to see it is a central and south American blend roasted medium/dark. I am not surprised that your 50 second shot of this is bitter. I would expect a 50 second shot of this to be bitter.

image
It's definitely on the lighter side of medium, Anodynes ratings are usually lil lighter than what they show, like if this were med dark its much lighter than medium darks from elsewhere, this was more like a medium/med light. But I've pulled even dark roast on a Slayer, like Chromatics Opus which is definitely a medium dark and it's mind blowing good on Slayer, that's like heavily chocolate goodness. Guess the BDB even profiling isn't capable of that? I know people still profile with the E61 attachment with medium roast with excellent results, so would assume especially with the BDB mods it's capable of that?

The other beans were are pretty light, including a very light natural Ethiopian and Sidamo, those were the two that were pulling really bad with dead spots and channeling even with PI set at 70 or below, as well as the Nicaragua Limoncillo Estate. That was really weird, I couldn't get any hint of Berry notes (or the notes of Nicaragua /berry/salted caramel/milk chocolate), that popped with V60 or on other machines pulling shots.

I'll try pulling a few ways, regular open no PI, maybe PI but only for a couple seconds, and no PI bit profiling from get go. But the solenoid comes in sometimes tomorrow so hopefully after that it's better.

BodieZoffa

#25: Post by BodieZoffa »

lancealot wrote:I don't even know what this means. W.D. is usually expressed in grams per second. If you have 87.5 grams per second of water coming out of your group, that is a problem.



I don't know anything about this coffee so I looked it up. Hearing you were pulling it at 50 seconds, I was expecting something uber light and on-trend. I was surprised to see it is a central and south American blend roasted medium/dark. I am not surprised that your 50 second shot of this is bitter. I would expect a 50 second shot of this to be bitter.

image
Not necessarily as I have my setup dialed in hitting around 50 seconds for a 1 oz.~ yield with full city range coffees and it's quite smooth when things are really dialed in.

cmin (original poster)

#26: Post by cmin (original poster) » replying to BodieZoffa »

One of the only clear vids of a BDB profiling on YT is with a med dark roast pulled longer and look how flawless and thick it is. Meanwhile every single bean or blend on mine is pulling mehhhh even with Monolith Flat lol. I can only hope it's the solenoid but don't know when it'll get here as tracking updates keep saying delayed like everything with mail lately. I tried 4 different ways today and all sucked. Just did no PI, ramped to 9 bar, pulled back to 8 bar than to about 5 bar as shot was ending and still got the same channeling/dead spot issues and thinner taste and crema. Only way I've been able to get rid of that on any bean/blend is going coarser which flows too fast and taste even more underextracted and stream is very blonde.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAztTbNkGcE

cmin (original poster)

#27: Post by cmin (original poster) »

Here's a vid, about as good as I could get it dialed but can see how fast it starts to blonde and starts showing some channeling and ghost spots starting. Any finer and that just gets worse, and coarser and the shot is even thinner tasting, crema weaker than already weak crema. 19g/38 out in 43 seconds I think.

Still waiting on solenoid but this was open no PI so pressure at 9 and pulled slightly to 8 and than dropped naturally from puck degradation.

Edit - ughh is this clear for anyone? Obviously recorded in HD on my 21+ and looks perfect and sharp on phone, but that link is playing it back for me like it was taken with a phone from 10+ years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V1urFIplEQ

ECM Manufacture: @ecmespresso #weliveespresso
Sponsored by ECM Manufacture
luvmy40

#28: Post by luvmy40 »

Obviously I can't taste it, but that looks like a decent pull.

cmin (original poster)

#29: Post by cmin (original poster) » replying to luvmy40 »

Started "ok" than, hard to tell with vid, but quickly went blonde and channeled and started showing ghost/naked spots, didn't see in vid but it actually sprayed to the right onto my counter and back splash. Pry why every shot I make on this machine from light to darker roast taste really thin, even crema was weak on this blend and I've used this blend on and off for years, can't get normal even pull, slayer mode/pi/or ramped like normal

Solenoid just came so I hope that's the issue.

cmin (original poster)

#30: Post by cmin (original poster) »

Put new solenoid in, the shot actually channeled before coming together (DF64 can actually retain a gram+ and I noticed that initial clump even after hitting the bellow and I already removed declumper which made that worse, it's not exactly a well designed grinder, quirky as f' lol) however body still seemed on thin side but the crema was much thicker than before. Also noticed pressure seem to ramp better and was smoother to input with water knob, mine was stupid sensitive prior, now it seems smoother and more easily adjusted.

I'll play around further tomorrow.
lancealot wrote:I don't even know what this means. W.D.
I don't know if you noticed the edit yet, lol, was on my phone and don't know what I typed lol, but it was 5.8. I'll recheck with new solenoid tomorrow, I don't really know the Breville well but from what I can see, and I know there's a range due to machine variance but 5.8 seems in range right?