Thin, Watery Espresso

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mintyfresh375
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 years ago

#1: Post by mintyfresh375 »

I'm having a really difficult time getting good shots.

My espresso machine is a La Cimbali Junior S1 from 1998, and my grinder is an old Fiorenzato T80.

Basically, no matter what I do, I'm getting thin, watery espresso with almost no crema (video attached).
Video: https://gfycat.com/slushyelderlygrackle

The extraction shown below is with 16.0g and I got out 28.2-which seems roughly right in terms of weight. The extraction looks weak to me though, which has been a common trend. Also, I know this video has a lot of channeling, but I'm getting the same problems even when I don't have channeling like this.

Things I've tried:
Finer grind:
-I can choke my machine really easily; one grind setting finer gave me a wet weight of 18g. Although, looking at the particle size, this grind seems like it's too coarse to me.
Less coffee:
- I've tried using in-between 12-16 g of coffee with corresponding different grinds
Different beans:
- exact same results
- the beans in this video are slightly older than what I've normally had (10 days since roasting as opposed to around 3-5)

Stuff I've noticed:
- My temperature seems like it could be off? I've had a hard time getting consistent measurements I trust though. When I first got the machine, the top of the cycle was at 1.15. I was getting sputtering from the portafilter, so I lowered the pressurestat. I lowered it all the way to .8, but-in an empty portafilter-my thermocouple said the water was still coming out at 210 initially. The temperature dropped off to about 180 during extractions though, so increased the tank pressure until that stopped occurring.
- The espresso seems sour though, although I am new to this, so I don't know how much I trust my taste
- My water debit is high (210mL in 10 seconds)

I'm sort of at a loss here. My first hypothesis would be the pump, since it seems like I have to have a coarse grind to get the right ratio. But that doesn't seem right, because the water debit is high.

Any thoughts? Thanks for any advice!

Grind size:

nahau
Posts: 528
Joined: 12 years ago

#2: Post by nahau »

Grind size looks very coarse, but kind of hard to tell because the photo is not real clear... still looks coarse though. Flow looks weak in the video. Unfortunately, you don't have a brew pressure gauge so no telling what bar the machine is pulling at.

I'm going to guess the pump might be bad too if you have to grind this coarse to get coffee out. As far as water debit, even a bad pump can push water if there is no restriction. On a machine with a brew pressure gauge, a bad pump can actually indicate good brew pressure at 9 bar with a blind portafiler, but fail to brew at 9 bar because it can't "maintain" that pressure through a puck.

Other possibilities are scale build up anywhere in the brew path, including possibly the water solenoid seal being bad/poor and allowing water to go into both the boiler and brew path when brewing. If the solenoid was the problem, you would see your boiler overfill, possibly indicated by very wet steam out of the wand.

Are there any indications that might tell you the machine is stuggling? Like perhaps a change in sound of the pump when trying to brew coffee. Does the pump sound weak? Does it ever go silent?

I'm going to recommend something that I always recommend when a pump is suspected because it's a quick/cheap test/repair. If this is an Ulka pump, go to the hardware store and look for an o-ring in the size of 5mm x 2mm, or 5/16" x 3/16". Carefully take the pump apart, (don't lose any small parts) and replace the piston o-ring with the one you purchased... it'll be the smallest o-ring in the pump and goes around the skinny part of the piston shaft. Also clean any scale you see on the pump parts. Note that this size o-ring is for the common 52 watt Ulka pumps that a lot of machines use. I can only "guess" you might be using the same pump. PLEASE UNPLUG YOUR MACHINE BEFORE WORKING INSIDE.



mintyfresh375 (original poster)
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 years ago

#3: Post by mintyfresh375 (original poster) »

Thank you! I'll try that out. From that picture, it looks like what my pump looks like.

There was one thing I forgot to mention in my post, which kind of sounds like it might be the water solenoid seal you talk about. When I brew/backflush, the boiler level rises (sometimes alot) Also, when I backflush, the water doesnt seem to drain while it's backflushing. Water comes out into the drip tray after I turn the pump off, but not before. Does that seem like it would be caused by a bad solenoid seal?

nahau
Posts: 528
Joined: 12 years ago

#4: Post by nahau »

I have never worked on or have ever seen a La Cimbali Junior S1 so I really don't know your machine. I'm only troubleshooting the symptoms as you've described. My basic knowledge is on machines with Heat Exchangers (HX), and I don't even know if your machine is an HX type.

Does your machine have a backflush procedure? I'm not familiar with it so I can't say what should happen. Do you have a link to a manual for your machine?... I can't find one specifically for your model.

I gave you the pump o-ring information so you'd have somewhere to start, and possibly avoid having to buy/replace the pump just to troubleshoot. Try the o-ring and see if it helps or solves the problem. If it doesn't fix it, then we have to look further.

mintyfresh375 (original poster)
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 years ago

#5: Post by mintyfresh375 (original poster) replying to nahau »

Thanks for the advice! I took it all apart, and it turns out it was both the pump and the HX... The pump was getting up to about 4 bars after I cleaned it and put it back together, but the HX had a huge rupture

nahau
Posts: 528
Joined: 12 years ago

#6: Post by nahau »

mintyfresh375 wrote:but the HX had a huge rupture
That doesn't sound good. Hope it doesn't cost you too much to fix it. Good luck!