Abe Carmeli wrote: I don't know enough about your thermometer or T/C. You need a very accurate one and a 36 gage type T or K T/C. With the basket in the P/F, snake the T/C over the basket rim and have it touch the basket bottom around the center...

After 40 minutes idle time, run a flush with your T/C in the P/F to measure flush temperature. It should read as follows:

~210-211 f for 4 oz, and then gradually go down to 201f around 8 oz.
Again, your pressure stat should be @ 1.1 bars.

My gauge isn't anything fancy, but it does read boiling water at 210 (1,400 ft)

Abe Carmeli wrote: Now if you want to test Brew temperature, it must be done during a real shot, that is with coffee in the P/F. use the "Snake the T/C over the P/F rim" method I described above.

I did these this morning, and still my max temp was around 175-180'. That was with the machine running around 1.35 - 1.5 bars, just to exaggerate the effect.

If things are running correctly, and my machine is set too high, shouldn't there be steam blowing out the head at the same time if it's that hot? The stream is smooth and there is no steam.

Dan - shots are on the weak side. They look watery to me and the crema is light. I have a comparison from the LM to my giotto for the black cat and the crema on the LM was reddish brown and mine is pale beige.

crudo20 wrote:Dan - shots are on the weak side. They look watery to me and the crema is light.

Watery and weak? How much coffee and what are the pour times? Sounds like some diagnosis with a bottomless portafilter is in order. Now that I think about it, the stock Giotto basket was a little shallower than most; it held a true 14 grams of coffee. Nothing wrong with the basket per se, but I remember it was less tolerant of errors in dosing / distribution / tamp.


Giotto stock basket compared to typical ridged Faema basket

Dan - could be. The basket is smaller than normal. I'll get back with how much it holds, but my old gaggia baskets are bigger. I've got the grind dialed into a 2 oz 25 sec pour. The gaggia basket levels out @ 17gm. It fits, so I'll pull one in there later.

Shouldn't steam be coming out of the idle gh without the pf in place when you start pulling water through?

While the "water dance" is pretty universal, the amount of flash / steam varies from machine to machine. It's affected by the length of the delivery tubing, the size and percentage of the water immersed in the boiler water (versus exposed only to steam), the idle temperature of the group... a whole list of factors. For example, the Elektra A3 flashes so aggressively for five seconds that the sound alone makes it very obvious when the overheated HX water is evacuated. The Cimbali Junior's spittle is timid in comparison.

In any case, Abe's flushing table is for your machine. It lists by volume and idle time to such a level of precision that mere mortals cannot appreciate the brilliance of its making. Use it and worry no more.

Just to answer my own question here - yes it should! Thanks everyone for the help - and please pardon my mess of postings..